I am a gambler

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
alfa
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I am a gambler

Post by alfa » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 am

Friends :smile:

I am an introvert, almost a hermit. I do not like to interact with the world, except when it's necessary or when it's spiritually meaningful (such as participating in this forum). Else, I keep to myself.

I hardly go out, have no social media accounts. Put simply, a hermit.

But we all have to earn a livelihood. I do so by gambling in the stock market. That way, I get to stay home and avoid people.

A staunch Buddhist will call this wrong livelihood. But I need the money to survive.

Your thoughts? :meditate:

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retrofuturist
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 am

Greetings Alfa,
alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 am
A staunch Buddhist will call this wrong livelihood. But I need the money to survive.

Your thoughts? :meditate:
Gambling and investing aren't fundamentally different, one just has far better long term odds than the other, since what's usually defined as "gambling" is usually such that the odds are tilted, even ever so slightly against you.

Somewhere there's a sutta directed to a householder, that talks about how someone might manage their income - one parts to this, two parts to that etc... unfortunately I cannot find it via Google search just at the moment. I'm pretty sure at least one of the things was "investing", and that may have been investing in one's business or livelihood, investing for the future etc. I cannot remember for sure, so hopefully someone can find the sutta I am talking about, based upon my inept description of it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

SarathW
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by SarathW » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:42 am

Stock market arbitrage is a necessary part of capital system. It is a thin line between gambling and stock market play I suppose.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DNS
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by DNS » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:34 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 am
Somewhere there's a sutta directed to a householder, that talks about how someone might manage their income - one parts to this, two parts to that etc... unfortunately I cannot find it via Google search just at the moment.
In gathering wealth like this,
a householder does enough for their family.
And they’d hold on to friends
by dividing their wealth in four.

One portion is to enjoy.
Two parts invest in work.
And the fourth should be kept
for times of trouble.”


https://suttacentral.net/dn31/en/sujato

Basically, one part for your daily needs (food, clothing, housing), one part for an emergency, and two parts (half) for investments / business.

However, it wouldn't be wise investing or business if you're mostly guessing with stocks. If you're making educated decisions after lots of research into the companies, it might be considered a good livelihood, but it is difficult to do successfully and many people do lose a lot of money on the stock markets.

alfa
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by alfa » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 am
Greetings Alfa,
alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 am
A staunch Buddhist will call this wrong livelihood. But I need the money to survive.

Your thoughts? :meditate:
Gambling and investing aren't fundamentally different, one just has far better long term odds than the other, since what's usually defined as "gambling" is usually such that the odds are tilted, even ever so slightly against you.

Somewhere there's a sutta directed to a householder, that talks about how someone might manage their income - one parts to this, two parts to that etc... unfortunately I cannot find it via Google search just at the moment. I'm pretty sure at least one of the things was "investing", and that may have been investing in one's business or livelihood, investing for the future etc. I cannot remember for sure, so hopefully someone can find the sutta I am talking about, based upon my inept description of it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thanks, Retro. :namaste:

Wish I could do something else, but my hermit-like nature won't allow me.

alfa
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm
Location: India

Re: I am a gambler

Post by alfa » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:42 am

DNS wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:34 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:33 am
Somewhere there's a sutta directed to a householder, that talks about how someone might manage their income - one parts to this, two parts to that etc... unfortunately I cannot find it via Google search just at the moment.
In gathering wealth like this,
a householder does enough for their family.
And they’d hold on to friends
by dividing their wealth in four.

One portion is to enjoy.
Two parts invest in work.
And the fourth should be kept
for times of trouble.”


https://suttacentral.net/dn31/en/sujato

Basically, one part for your daily needs (food, clothing, housing), one part for an emergency, and two parts (half) for investments / business.

However, it wouldn't be wise investing or business if you're mostly guessing with stocks. If you're making educated decisions after lots of research into the companies, it might be considered a good livelihood, but it is difficult to do successfully and many people do lose a lot of money on the stock markets.
I know that investing is always better and safe, but regular monthly income is only possible through swing trading. That's why, reluctantly, I had to do it. It's my karma, I guess. :cry:

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robertk
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by robertk » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:59 am

Hey, it's bad if you are losing.

But if you are winning and supporting yourself then congratulations, you are in the select group of 5% of day/ swing traders who do.

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DooDoot
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by DooDoot » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:18 am

alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 am
A staunch Buddhist will call this wrong livelihood. But I need the money to survive.
Its not wrong livelihood if you are not losing money. In Australia, under the taxation law, trading in trading financial products, such as CFDs and futures, is not considered as "gambling" because the price of these products is set by the market and market events.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sentinel
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by sentinel » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:40 am

This is a grey area , not straight forward wrong livelihood . But , you win other lose .
:buddha1:

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Manopubbangama
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by Manopubbangama » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:54 pm

I'm an investor but I just let my investments compound instead of churning em over and giving Uncle Sam a free taste all the time.
Buddhists, beware of spiritual transvestites.

dharmacorps
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by dharmacorps » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:17 pm

I prefer investing in the market to speculating/trading, but I have no problem with people who do. I used to do some trading for fun but found I wasn't terribly good at it and had concerns about owning individual securities that were involved in alcohol/meat industries.

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DooDoot
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:54 pm
I'm an investor but I just let my investments compound...
Is the above referring to investments compounding in financial value? Or does it refer to the various "I am" identities compounding? Thanks :shrug:
This, monks, is called a disciple of the noble ones who tears down and does not build up; who abandons and does not cling; who discards and does not pull in; who scatters and does not pile up.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Manopubbangama
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by Manopubbangama » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 am
Manopubbangama wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:54 pm
I'm an investor but I just let my investments compound...
Is the above referring to investments compounding in financial value? Or does it refer to the various "I am" identities compounding? Thanks :shrug:
This, monks, is called a disciple of the noble ones who tears down and does not build up; who abandons and does not cling; who discards and does not pull in; who scatters and does not pile up.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Do you know who Uncle Sam is?
Buddhists, beware of spiritual transvestites.

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DooDoot
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:50 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
Do you know who Uncle Sam is?
Uncle Sam collects tax and gives it to the Military Industrial Complex to profit from wrong livelihood.

:|
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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retrofuturist
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Re: I am a gambler

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:58 am

Greetings,
DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:50 am
Uncle Sam is the tax man.
Yes, and now that you've taken the bait, it's time to get...

:focus:

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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