Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

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pilgrim
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Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by pilgrim » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:46 am

The Ganges Valley where the Buddha lived is thousands of miles from the coast. Yet there are suttas where the Buddha talked about the oceans and its creatures. There are also suttas where he spoke of the cosmos. I'm wondering if his knowledge of the former was thru heresay from others or personal sight of the sea or was it, like his knowledge of the cosmos, acquired thru his psychic vision. Is there any sutta which mentions the Buddha traveling to the coast?

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DooDoot
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am

Any suttas saying the Buddha said the earth was round rather than flat?
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paul
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by paul » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:57 am

No, but he certainly knew about the sea. The furtherest east he travelled was to the Rajmahal area near the Bangladesh border, and the sea is about 500km south.

“ [1] Just as the ocean has a gradual shelf, a gradual slope, a gradual inclination, with a sudden drop-off only after a long stretch; in the same way this Dhamma & Vinaya has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual practice, with a penetration to gnosis only after a long stretch.”
Note 1 […] The continental shelf off the east coast of India does have a sudden drop-off after a long gradual slope. —-Ud 5.5, Thanissaro
Last edited by paul on Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 am

pilgrim wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:46 am
The Ganges Valley where the Buddha lived is thousands of miles from the coast. Yet there are suttas where the Buddha talked about the oceans and its creatures. There are also suttas where he spoke of the cosmos. I'm wondering if his knowledge of the former was thru heresay from others or personal sight of the sea or was it, like his knowledge of the cosmos, acquired thru his psychic vision. Is there any sutta which mentions the Buddha traveling to the coast?
Good question. If you look at maps which include the places where he is reported as teaching, the sea doesn't feature on them:

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+bud ... 66&bih=657

That's not to say, however, that he didn't ever visit the sea. As Stephen Batchelor points out,
Before he left home at the age of twenty-nine, , there is no mention of what kind of education Gotama received, what work or other duties he undertook, what questions and concerns animated him. There is a gaping hole in the narrative: we are simply not told what he did during his formative years. And in the six years between leaving home and the awakening, all we know is that he studied with two teachers...
(Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist, p. 246)

In fact, Batchelor is more concerned to suggest that the Buddha might have travelled further inland to the city of Taxila, but the same applies...

SarathW
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:21 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am
Any suttas saying the Buddha said the earth was round rather than flat?
yes, there is a sutta where it says that the atmosphere is on the space, water is on the atmosphere and the earth is on the water.
Anyone with critical thinking can visualise that the earth is floating on the space.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:22 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:21 am
yes, there is a sutta where it says that the atmosphere is on the space, water is on the atmosphere and the earth is on the water. Anyone with critical thinking can visualise that the earth is floating on the space.
Which sutta? Please provide a link? Thanks :)
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AgarikaJ
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by AgarikaJ » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:24 am

I think it is safe to say, that while the birthplace of the Buddha and the region of his direct work along the Gangetic plain are very far inland, the members of the ruling Mahajanapada monarchies there had very far-reaching trade relationships going.

As such, while it is likely that he never saw any ocean, the knowledge that one exists and how it would look like would have been common knowledge transmitted to him during his normal education as a noble son.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

SarathW
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:22 am
SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:21 am
yes, there is a sutta where it says that the atmosphere is on the space, water is on the atmosphere and the earth is on the water. Anyone with critical thinking can visualise that the earth is floating on the space.
Which sutta? Please provide a link? Thanks :)
I can't recall the Sutta but the Buddha's description of the earth is more accurate than saying the world is round.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:31 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 am
the Buddha's description of the earth is more accurate than saying the world is round.
Which description? :shrug: Please quote it.
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SarathW
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:33 am

Actually, I raised the same question I found the answer.

"This great earth, Ananda, is established upon liquid, the liquid upon the atmosphere, and the atmosphere upon space. And when, Ananda, mighty atmospheric disturbances take place, the liquid is agitated. And with the agitation of the liquid, tremors of the earth arise. This is the first reason, the first cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html

Why Buddha did not say that the world is round?
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21092&start=180#p410803
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:33 am
Actually, I raised the same question I found the answer.

"This great earth, Ananda, is established upon liquid, the liquid upon the atmosphere, and the atmosphere upon space. And when, Ananda, mighty atmospheric disturbances take place, the liquid is agitated. And with the agitation of the liquid, tremors of the earth arise. This is the first reason, the first cause for the arising of mighty earthquakes.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html
Thanks but it doesn't sound convincing to me. The above sounds like a peanut butter and salad sandwich or maybe a pizza. :smile:
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SarathW
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:38 am

Thanks but it doesn't sound convincing to me. The above sounds like a peanut butter and salad sandwich. :smile:
a
Well, I respect your opinion if that all you can learn from that.
:sage:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:41 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:38 am
Well, I respect your opinion if that all you can learn from that.
:sage:
Sorry Master. I was searching for an end to suffering but possibly I am on the wrong forum. My humble apologies. :embarassed:
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SarathW
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:53 am

I was searching for an end to suffering
Sorry if If you felt uncomfortable.
But perhaps Buddha did not talk about a round earth was the very reason it is not relevant to the goal that is the end to suffering.
:anjali:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Volovsky
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Re: Did the Buddha ever see the sea?

Post by Volovsky » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:27 am

pilgrim wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:46 am
Is there any sutta which mentions the Buddha traveling to the coast?
Well, the closest I can think of might be Sunāparanta, where the Puņņa Thera lived (SN 35.88, MN 145, that sutta, where Buddha asks him what would he do if people would beat him with fists, with sticks, etc). According to the commentaries, he even invited the Buddha, and the Buddha went there and stayed for 7 days. Nowadays Sunāparanta is identified with Nala Sopara (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nala_Sopara) near Mumbai on the coast.

(And, yes, I also know the fact that Buddha actually went there might be not 100% reliable, but that's what we have).

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