authentic, not authentic, partly authentic? https://www.amazon.com/Stories-Ghosts-P ... 9556870539
I was kind of interested in buying this for someone, but I would like to know what inconsistencies one may point out between this and the early buddhist texts. My co-worker said she likes thrillers and monsters or suspense, so I ordered this to give to her https://www.amazon.com/Before-Buddha-Wa ... 1614293546; obviously it's not an authentic text, but given that I gave her the dhammapada (pocket version), I thought I'd already sufficiently exposed her to the dharma.
petavatthu
- salayatananirodha
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petavatthu
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- salayatananirodha
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Re: petavatthu
curious about this too https://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Mansion ... 9556870547
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Re: petavatthu
There is a pioneering translation of both texts, Petavatthu and Vimānavatthu, available here:
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282259
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.282259
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: petavatthu
You can read quite a few selections from that translation on Sutta Central here: https://suttacentral.net/pv
There are no contradictions between anything found in the Petavatthu or Vimanavatthu and what people call the early Buddhist texts. People may have theories why they are later texts, but there are no contradictions.
There are no contradictions between anything found in the Petavatthu or Vimanavatthu and what people call the early Buddhist texts. People may have theories why they are later texts, but there are no contradictions.
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- salayatananirodha
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Re: petavatthu
thanks venerables or venerable and honorable
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Re: petavatthu
This is interesting. Do you know if SC has a similar collection for the Vimanavatthu?BKh wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:12 am You can read quite a few selections from that translation on Sutta Central here: https://suttacentral.net/pv
There are no contradictions between anything found in the Petavatthu or Vimanavatthu and what people call the early Buddhist texts. People may have theories why they are later texts, but there are no contradictions.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Re: petavatthu
Nevermind. I actually found it just by altering the url and guessingTRobinson465 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:53 amThis is interesting. Do you know if SC has a similar collection for the Vimanavatthu?BKh wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:12 am You can read quite a few selections from that translation on Sutta Central here: https://suttacentral.net/pv
There are no contradictions between anything found in the Petavatthu or Vimanavatthu and what people call the early Buddhist texts. People may have theories why they are later texts, but there are no contradictions.
https://suttacentral.net/vv
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Re: petavatthu
Hungry ghosts or ghosts are a major way of livelihood for priests in primitive cultures. But according to this, Beyond Primitivism: Indigenous Religious Traditions and Modernity eminent Sri Lankan scholar Professor Gananath Obesekara believes Peta Vattu to be a later canonical text in Buddhism. He’s not alone in this knowledge.
As Gehman observes in The Minor Anthologies of the Pali Canon IV,
It is true, then, beyond a doubt that Petavatthu literature is relatively late in composition, and only through popular use found entrance into the Pali canon. We are very apparently dealing with a low type of Buddhism; popular ghost stories in most cases were, in this work, given a Buddhist veneer … The base type of Buddhism found in this work evidently directed the Siamese theologians in not admitting the book into printed edition of the canon.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”
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Re: petavatthu
The "Siamese theologians" (!) never excluded the Petavatthu from printed editions of the Canon.Gehman wrote: The base type of Buddhism found in this work evidently directed the Siamese theologians in not admitting the book into printed edition of the canon.
I suspect what Gehman meant is that the said theologians did with the Petavatthu exactly what they did with the Dhammapada and the Jātaka: printed the verses (which are canonical) in the Tipiṭaka but the background stories (which are commentarial) separately.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: petavatthu
Dear Dhamma friends,
About peta 'tormented ghost', it is also mentioned in the suttas SN 19 Lakkhana Samyutta. See also pp. 78-81 in Mun-keat Choong's article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.
Kind regards,
Thomas
About peta 'tormented ghost', it is also mentioned in the suttas SN 19 Lakkhana Samyutta. See also pp. 78-81 in Mun-keat Choong's article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.
Kind regards,
Thomas
Re: petavatthu
The Chinese version of SN 19 dated to 435–443 CE.--almost closer to the Buddhaghosa's time. Therefore, having a Chinese parallel doesn't mean it was said by the Buddha.thomaslaw wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:03 am Dear Dhamma friends,
About peta 'tormented ghost', it is also mentioned in the suttas SN 19 Lakkhana Samyutta. See also pp. 78-81 in Mun-keat Choong's article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.
Kind regards,
Thomas
Note: This and my earlier post are parts of answers to my questions that I posted here (except the emoji ). Sorry, didn't mention that earlier.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”
Re: petavatthu
The translation is from the 400s. The scripture is considerably older.StormBorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:56 pmThe Chinese version of SN 19 dated to 435–443 CE.--almost closer to the Buddhaghosa's time. Therefore, having a Chinese parallel doesn't mean it was said by the Buddha.thomaslaw wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:03 am Dear Dhamma friends,
About peta 'tormented ghost', it is also mentioned in the suttas SN 19 Lakkhana Samyutta. See also pp. 78-81 in Mun-keat Choong's article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.
Kind regards,
Thomas
Note: This and my earlier post are parts of answers to my questions that I posted here (except the emoji ). Sorry, didn't mention that earlier.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: petavatthu
But, note that the texts pertain to the vyakarana-anga (P. veyyakarana-anga) portion of SA/SN, according to Yinshun (see pp. 68-9 in the Choong's article). That means, these discourses were a later collection subordinated to the relevant Sutra-anga sections.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:45 pmThe translation is from the 400s. The scripture is considerably older.StormBorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:56 pmThe Chinese version of SN 19 dated to 435–443 CE.--almost closer to the Buddhaghosa's time. Therefore, having a Chinese parallel doesn't mean it was said by the Buddha.thomaslaw wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:03 am Dear Dhamma friends,
About peta 'tormented ghost', it is also mentioned in the suttas SN 19 Lakkhana Samyutta. See also pp. 78-81 in Mun-keat Choong's article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.
Kind regards,
Thomas
...
Re: petavatthu
Thanks. Similarly one might say that the The Moon is considerably older too as it has two Saṃyuktāgama parallels (oldest being 352–431 CE) and a Sanskrit parallel. From the content of the sutta we can clearly conclude that the sutta is a later fabrication and perhaps an attempt to make the Buddha so powerful to primitive eyes, but at modern times we know this is just a lunar eclipse.thomaslaw wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:48 amBut, note that the texts pertain to the vyakarana-anga (P. veyyakarana-anga) portion of SA/SN, according to Yinshun (see pp. 68-9 in the Choong's article). That means, these discourses were a later collection subordinated to the relevant Sutra-anga sections.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:45 pmThe translation is from the 400s. The scripture is considerably older.StormBorn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:56 pm
The Chinese version of SN 19 dated to 435–443 CE.--almost closer to the Buddhaghosa's time. Therefore, having a Chinese parallel doesn't mean it was said by the Buddha.
...
Then you find The Sun also, but no Chinese parallels.
Credit: Ven. Kusalagavesi
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”
Re: petavatthu
How do you make up the date: oldest being 352–431 CE?StormBorn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:59 amThanks. Similarly one might say that the The Moon is considerably older too as it has two Saṃyuktāgama parallels (oldest being 352–431 CE) and a Sanskrit parallel. From the content of the sutta we can clearly conclude that the sutta is a later fabrication and perhaps an attempt to make the Buddha so powerful to primitive eyes, but at modern times we know this is just a lunar eclipse.thomaslaw wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:48 amBut, note that the texts pertain to the vyakarana-anga (P. veyyakarana-anga) portion of SA/SN, according to Yinshun (see pp. 68-9 in the Choong's article). That means, these discourses were a later collection subordinated to the relevant Sutra-anga sections.
Then you find The Sun also, but no Chinese parallels.
Credit: Ven. Kusalagavesi