what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

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frank k
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what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by frank k » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:00 pm

the last words of the Buddha: (ven. Thanissaro trans.)
“I exhort you, monks: All fabrications are subject to decay. Reach consummation through heedfulness.” That was the Tathāgata’s last statement.

the pali:
“handa dāni, bhikkhave, āmantayāmi vo —
‘vaya-dhammā
saṅkhārā,
appamādena sampādethā’ti.
ayaṃ tathāgatassa
pacchimā vācā”.

my word for word translation:
“I exhort you, monks:
'decay,--[as a natural law of]-Dhamma;
fabrications [are subject to that law];
assiduously (you should)-accomplish [The Goal].”
those (were the) tathāgata's
final words.”

For starters Dhammā is plural nominative correct?

second question, is sampadetha (accomplish) referring back to the previous sentence or an unnamed object?
I interpret sampadetha here as meaning one should accomplish the noble eightfold path [as the unnamed object]. But grammatically, is it supposed to refer to previous sentence, such as one should accomplish the full understanding of vaya dhamma?
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Dmytro
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by Dmytro » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:43 pm

frank k wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:00 pm

For starters Dhammā is plural nominative correct?
No, it's an adjective.
second question, is sampadetha (accomplish) referring back to the previous sentence or an unnamed object?
No.

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Volovsky
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by Volovsky » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:25 pm

Dhamma here has meaning "the nature of", not doctrine. So, it will be "the decay-naturing [are] formations". sampādetha is an imperative 2nd person plural referring to the monks. As usually the vowel before "ti" is lengthened, so we have long ā: sampādethā’ti.

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mikenz66
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:36 pm

For a selection of suttas where dhammā is used in this way, see Bhikkhu Bodhi's introductions to his translations, such as linked here: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/tr ... u=mikenz66

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Dmytro
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by Dmytro » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:12 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:36 pm
For a selection of suttas where dhammā is used in this way, see Bhikkhu Bodhi's introductions to his translations, such as linked here: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/tr ... u=mikenz66
Yes, there's one more passage at:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5584#p422383

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mikenz66
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:50 am

Thanks, I didn't manage to locate that post by searching... :thinking:

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thang
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by thang » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:31 am

frank k wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:00 pm
‘vaya-dhammā saṅkhārā,
appamādena sampādethā
For starters Dhammā is plural nominative correct? second question, is sampadetha (accomplish) referring back to the previous sentence or an unnamed object? I interpret sampadetha here as meaning one should accomplish the noble eightfold path [as the unnamed object]. But grammatically, is it supposed to refer to previous sentence, such as one should accomplish the full understanding of vaya dhamma?
As I have heard the word 'Dhamma' has several meanings.
1. The Buddhas Teaching : eg- Buddha-dhamma-sangha, dhammam sunatha, a-dhamma, dhammacari
2. Natural Laws (wholesome or unwholesome) : eg- kusala dhamma, akusala dhamma, aparihaniya dhamma, hana bhagiya dhamma, carana dhamma, sappurisa dhamma, asappurisa dhamma
3. Phenomenon/thing : mano pubangama dhamma, rupa dhamma, nama dhamma

..may be there are more meanings.

Here "vayadhamma" seems to be "Decaying things/ decaying phenomena".
So 'vayadhamma sankhara' means "The preparations are decaying things".

"Sampadetha" means accomplish. Object of accomplish is hidden. It cannot be the previous sentence.
I think the meaning is "accomplish what the Buddha asked you to accomplish". (accomplish sila-samadhi-panna or attangika magga)
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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DooDoot
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Re: what 'dhamma' is exactly in vaya-dhamma?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:51 am

thang wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:31 am
As I have heard the word 'Dhamma' has several meanings.
This may be so but we still must discern the correct meaning in the context.
thang wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:31 am
Here "vayadhamma" seems to be "Decaying things/ decaying phenomena". So 'vayadhamma sankhara' means "The preparations are decaying things".
I have heard the word 'sankhara' has several meanings.

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