The Pali word: 'Satta'

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DooDoot
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The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by DooDoot » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:43 am

Dear Pali gurus

"Satta" is said to mean "beings" but also means "clinging", according to the following:
satta1
hanging, clinging or attached to Vin.i.185; DN.ii.246; Mnd.23, Mnd.24; Dhp.342; Ja.i.376 Cp. āsatta1 & byāsatta.

pp. of sañj: sajjati

satta2
(m.) a living being, creature, a sentient & rational beiṅg, a person; DN.i.17, DN.i.34, DN.i.53, DN.i.82 DN.ii.68; AN.i.35 sq., AN.i.55 sq.; SN.i.135; SN.v.41; Vin.i.5; Mil.273 Vism.310 (defn: “rūp’ādisu khandhesu chandarāgena sattā visattā ti sattā,” thus = satta1); Ne.161; DN-a.i.51, DN-a.i.161; Vb-a.144
■ naraka˚; a being in purgatory (cp. niraya˚) Vism.500.
(nt.) soul (= jīvita or viññāṇa) Pv.i.81 (gata˚ = vigata-jīvita Pv-a.40).
(nt.) substance Vin.i.287. nissatta non-substantial phenomenal Dhs-a.38.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/define/satta
The meaning of "clinging" appears quite unambiguous in SN 23.2 and Dhp:
Sir, they speak of this thing called a ‘sentient being’.

“‘satto, satto’ti, bhante, vuccati.

How is a sentient being defined?”

Kittāvatā nu kho, bhante, sattoti vuccatī”ti?

“Rādha, when you cling, strongly cling, to desire, greed, relishing, and craving for form, then a being is spoken of.

“Rūpe kho, rādha, yo chando yo rāgo yā nandī yā taṇhā, tatra satto, tatra visatto, tasmā sattoti vuccati.

https://suttacentral.net/sn23.2/en/sujato
Yaṃ esā sahate jammī,
taṇhā loke visattikā;
Sokā tassa pavaḍḍhanti,
abhivaṭṭhaṃva bīraṇaṃ.

Whoever is overcome by this wretched and sticky craving, his sorrows grow like grass after the rains.

Tasiṇāya purakkhatā pajā,
Parisappanti sasova bandhito ;
Saṃyojanasaṅgasattakā,
Dukkhamupenti punappunaṃ cirāya

342. Beset by craving, people run about like an entrapped hare. Held fast by mental fetters, they come to suffering again and again for a long time.

https://suttacentral.net/dhp334-359/pli/ms
Are these translations of "stuck" and "a being" related? Or are they unrelated in their derivation? If they are related, how did "stuck" become "a being"?

Thank you :|

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:40 am

Any answers? Thanks :)

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Dmytro
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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by Dmytro » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:48 am

Hi,

These are just homonyms used here in a wordplay. They are related to very different roots.

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:49 am

Thank you Dmytro

Could you kindly provide more explanation or examples?

Thank you

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by Dmytro » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:12 am

Etymology of "satta" is explained in PED, "fr. sant".

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Volo
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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by Volo » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:14 am

As PED says Satta1 (clinging or attached) is a past participle of root sañj (sajjati). Satta2 (living being) is formed from sant, which is a present participle of root as (atthi). So, they are not related, it's just a coincidence they are written the same way.
aka Volovsky

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:15 am

Volovsky wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:14 am
As PED says Satta1 (clinging or attached) is a past participle of root sañj (sajjati). Satta2 (living being) is formed from sant, which is a present participle of root as (atthi). So, they are not related, it's just a coincidence they are written the same way.
Thank you V. The above was a very clear explanation. However, it seems the two homonym meanings appear in the same sutta SN 23.2; with two different meanings; yet explaining eachother. This is strange.
Sir, they speak of this thing called a ‘sentient being’.

“‘satto, satto’ti, bhante, vuccati.

How is a sentient being defined?”

Kittāvatā nu kho, bhante, sattoti vuccatī”ti?

“Rādha, when you cling, strongly cling, to desire, greed, relishing, and craving for form, then a being is spoken of.

“Rūpe kho, rādha, yo chando yo rāgo yā nandī yā taṇhā, tatra satto, tatra visatto, tasmā sattoti vuccati.

https://suttacentral.net/sn23.2/en/sujato
Also, is 'sajjati' the same as 'sañjāti'?

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Volo
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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by Volo » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:06 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:15 am
Thank you V. The above was a very clear explanation. However, it seems the two homonym meanings appear in the same sutta SN 23.2; with two different meanings; yet explaining eachother. This is strange.
Well, the ancient authors did not worry so much about linguistic. Such explanations have rather educational function then explaining the real etymology of the word. In the Commentaries this happens all the time: word is explained by words, which phonetically sound similar but not necessarily are related to it.
Also, is 'sajjati' the same as 'sañjāti'?
I think it is the same as sañjati (with short a, not sañjāti). Don't you have PED? It is available as Android app, for other platforms probably as well.
aka Volovsky

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:21 pm

Thank you Volovsky. :smile:

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by justindesilva » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:45 pm

Dmytro wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:48 am
Hi,

These are just homonyms used here in a wordplay. They are related to very different roots.
In the gatha describing 9 qualities of lord budda as :
Itipiso bagava arahan samma sambuddo ...........
..... satta devamanussan buddo bagavati
satta devamanussan is translated as teacher and leader of men and devas or unexcelled trainer of men and devas.

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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by Dmytro » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:36 pm

justindesilva wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:45 pm

In the gatha describing 9 qualities of lord budda as :
Itipiso bagava arahan samma sambuddo ...........
..... satta devamanussan buddo bagavati
satta devamanussan is translated as teacher and leader of men and devas or unexcelled trainer of men and devas.
In the gatha the word is "sattha".

justindesilva
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Re: The Pali word: 'Satta'

Post by justindesilva » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:44 am

Dmytro wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:36 pm
justindesilva wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:45 pm

In the gatha describing 9 qualities of lord budda as :
Itipiso bagava arahan samma sambuddo ...........
..... satta devamanussan buddo bagavati
satta devamanussan is translated as teacher and leader of men and devas or unexcelled trainer of men and devas.
In the gatha the word is "sattha".
yes I agree it should be sattha ( though I wrote satta) my apologies pl. In fact in sinhala books it is written as saththa. ( with the first th a soft sound and the second th a strong sound).

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