The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:06 pm

So..... Why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such freauency?

They had plenty of back-and-forth dialogue.

They had plenty of disagreements.

Their alleged mistranslation of anatta is never brought up.

Why? It is such a serious issue, if there is any truth at all to it.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

SarathW
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by SarathW » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:20 pm

The above is from a post where I discussed this issue of interpreting suttas. A key problem today is the practice of translating a given sutta just word-by-word, without paying attention to the key message embedded in the sutta.

The name of the MN 117 is “Great Forty”. One first needs to know where 40 comes from. There are 8 steps in the eightfold path, but two more needed to attain the Arahant stage: Sammā Ñāna and Sammā Vimutti. So, altogether there are 10 factors. I have explained this earlier.
So, for the mundane and lokottara paths, there are 10 factors each.

In the same way, in the “wrong path” there are two possible: one will most of the 10 types of mica ditthi and another with a few mica ditthi remaining. This is not explained in detail in the sutta. As I explained above, a given sutta cannot explain everything. We need to remember that these suttas were designed for oral transmission.
This is my understanding.

I read MN 117 as follows:
- 10 wholesome factors by developing (good) and abandoning (bad) = 20 wholesome
- 10 unwholesome factors by developing (bad) and abandoning (good) = 20 unwholesome

See the following link as well:


What is wrong release?
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20436&hilit

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=22062&p=485161#p485161
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:23 pm

Coemgenu asked:
Why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such freauency?
Sabbatthivāda (Sanskrit: Sarvāstivāda) was one of many schools that broke off from the Theravada.
Apparently they did not agree on many other critical teachings. They compiled their own Tipitaka.

According to D. J. Kalupahana's book "Buddhist Philosophy" (p. 117), Saddharmapundarika Sutra was a Sabbatthivāda text that was adopted by Mahayana. There are many outrageous statements in that sutra; see, "https://puredhamma.net/historical-backg ... -analysis/".

So, it is not surprising at all that Sabbatthivāda did not pay attention to many things in the Pali Tipitaka.

But think about this: Apparently most Theravadins TODAY do not pay any attention to this obvious violation of the Vinaya Pitaka regarding Buddha's admonishment not to translate Tipiataka to Sanskrit. They quote freely from such Sanskrit texts.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:11 am

D. J. Kalupahana thinks Nāgārjuna was a Theravādin. Academics believe all sorts of nonsense things. Especially if they are audacious enough theses to get funding to write papers. Readers will have to read and decide for themselves.

Absolutely no one else believes the Lotus Sūtra was a Sarvāstivāda text. The Sarvāstivāda were not Mahāyānists. A basic familiarity with Buddhist history establishes that.

The Sanskrit texts they cite are the same texts as in the Pāli tripitaka, but in Sanskrit.

The Sarvāstivāda were the largest and most populous school in India. Why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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robertk
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by robertk » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:57 am

Lal wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:23 pm
.

But think about this: Apparently most Theravadins TODAY do not pay any attention to this obvious violation of the Vinaya Pitaka regarding Buddha's admonishment not to translate Tipiataka to Sanskrit. They quote freely from such Sanskrit texts.
I dont know anyone who respects the Dhamma who would use sanskrit texts? unless it is to refute the wrong ideas.

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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:01 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:11 am
D. J. Kalupahana thinks Nāgārjuna was a Theravādin. Academics believe all sorts of nonsense things. Especially if they are audacious enough theses to get funding to write papers. Readers will have to read and decide for themselves.

Absolutely no one else believes the Lotus Sūtra was a Sarvāstivāda text.
Actually I very much doubt that Kalupahana himself thought any such thing. What he states is:
The legends in the Lalitavistara go even a step further in describing these events. Although it does not set out the Mahāyāna doctrines as definitely as do the other treatises such as the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka, a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists, yet the miraculous aspect of the life of the Buddha is emphasized, providing new material and relating so many novelties that occasionally the narrative is interrupted to extol the merits of faith (śraddhā), through fear that such a description might cause the followers to doubt its validity.
But I'm virtually certain that there is a typo here and that the clause, "a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists" should come after "the Lalitavistara", thus:
The legends in the Lalitavistara, a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists, go even a step further in describing these events. Although it does not set out the Mahāyāna doctrines as definitely as do the other treatises such as the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka, yet the miraculous aspect of the life of the Buddha is emphasized, providing new material and relating so many novelties that occasionally the narrative is interrupted to extol the merits of faith (śraddhā), through fear that such a description might cause the followers to doubt its validity.
There's no way that a scholar of Kalupahana's calibre would suppose the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka to have started its life as a Sarvāstivādin work.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:55 am

Regarding the comments by Coemgenu, robertk, and Dhammanando above:

We seem to have gotten back to the “going around in a loop” problem.

The key point is that Sarvāstivāda along with many other spin-offs started emerging around the second Buddhist Council at the time of Emperor Asoka. The Pali Tipitaka that resulted from that Sangayana attended only by Arahants was brought Sri Lanka and has been preserved in that state.

The last Buddhist Council attended by all Arahants was the fourth that was conducted around 5 BCE in Matale, Sri Lanka was written down at that time. That is the Pali Tipitaka that we have today. So, we can be confident that it contains the original teachings of the Buddha.
- Proof comes from the inter-consistency. All the material in the Pali Tipitaka is self-consistent; please see my summary below.

On the other hand, starting from the spin-off at the second Buddhist Council, various sects emerged in India and the texts became increasingly Sanskrit. All Mahayana texts were eventually written in Sanskrit. They did what the Buddha specifically prohibited to do.

So, it is a distraction to discuss Sarvāstivāda texts. No need to start this circular process again. One can spend a lifetime investigating and debating such issues. You all have spent over ten years debating these issues. Have you made any progress?

I proposed the following procedure on Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:49 am (p.23 of this thread). Here, I am updating with the progress that we have made so far.

1. The goal of a Buddhist is to attain Nibbana, and Nibbana is defined by the Buddha as “ragakkhayo Nibbanan, dosakkhayo Nibbanan, mohakkhayo Nibbanan”. Nibbana is attained in a long process. But as one gets rid of greed, hate/anger, and ignorance (of the Four Noble Truths), one starts feeling Nibbana gradually (cooling down of one’s mind), and the progress is enhanced at the four stages of magga phala (Sotapanna etc).

2. Controversies arise when we discuss what the Buddha taught on how to get rid of greed, hate, and ignorance from one’s mind. But we can follow three basic guidelines to throw away bad interpretations and keep the good ones that make sense.
- A given interpretation MUST be consistent with #1 above.
- It MUST be also self-consistent, i.e., explanation of one concept must be consistent with the explanation of another concept. This is a proven method in modern science, and that is how science is making progress. I will give an example in 5 below.
- One can verify for oneself if one can actually start feeling the “cooling down” as one follows the correct interpretations.

3. If we can find a self-consistent interpretation within the Tipitaka that is also consistent with #1 above, there is no need to refer to other interpretations. Why make it harder than necessary? Again, this is the procedure followed by modern science: the simplest explanation that does not contradict the fundamental axioms is the best.

4. If we don’t follow these (or whatever guidelines we come with), then we will be just going around in circles. Once we find that someone’s interpretation is not consistent with the ultimate goal of #1 above OR it is inconsistent with another concept within that interpretation itself, then we MUST not go back to that interpretation.

5. In my post on Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga, I have pointed out that two of his major interpretations are not consistent with #1 above.
- Focusing the mind on a one’s breath or on a kasina object can SUPPRESS greedy/hateful/ignorant thoughts and thus provide some cooling down. But that will not lead to a permanent solution in GETTING RID OF the hidden anusaya (that I have explained in recent posts). Put it in another way, one MUST get rid of one’s bad habits/character (gati) by learning the true Dhamma AND by following it.
- Others have pointed out many other problems. For example, on pp. 15-16 in his “Nibbana – The Mind Stilled” series, Ven. Nanananda points out that Visuddhimagga and another commentary of Buddhaghosa are inconsistent with #1 above.

6. Therefore, it does not make any sense to continue to use Buddhaghjosa’s works and to quote his commentaries. With such gaping errors, there is no justification to call them reliable sources of information on Buddha Dhamma.
- SarathW and Coemgenu have not provided any reasonable arguments to counter my evidence against Visuddhimagga. Just making statements is not enough.

7. We also established that the Buddha established a Vinaya rule that the Tipitaka should never be translated to Sanskrit: See, my post on Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:24 am (p. 24 of this thread).
- Therefore, we should NEVER refer to any document in Sanskrit in order to clarify a given concept.
- There are three commentaries written in Pali that are still with the Tipitaka: Nettipakarana, Patisambhidamagga Pakarana, and Petakopadesa.
- Those original commentaries are sufficient to help us find correct interpretations.
- The material at the puredhamma.net website is consistent with #1 above, with the Tipitaka with its three commentaries, and is also self-consistent. I welcome anyone to point out any inconsistencies.

8. Furthermore, I also want to also point out that the discussion that we had over the key concept of vinnana is a good example to see that this above procedure works (see my post on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:12 am and the discussion pursuing that): Attaining Nibbana is synonymous with cleansing one’s defiled vinnana.
- If anyone can point out a problem with my explanation of what is meant by vinnana, we can discuss that too.

9. More recently we discussed the Mahā­cat­tārīsa­ka Sutta (MN 117). My explanation is self-consistent with the Pali Tipitaka.
- By the way, many people today analyze deep suttas, but don't believe in rebirth. That is one of the 10 types of micca ditthi and one with such micca ditthi is not even on the mundane eightfold path. We need to understand the basics first: ten types of micca ditthi, dasa akusala, etc. Understanding anicca, dukkha, anatta comes after that. That is the key message of the Mahā­cat­tārīsa­ka Sutta. Please read that sutta carefully.
- Of course there is nothing wrong with being a "secular Buddhist" who does not believe in rebirth. It is just that one needs to understand the real message of the Buddha (that the rebirth process is filled with unimaginable suffering) in order to comprehend anicca, dukkha, anatta.
- As I pointed out in a recent post, the following verse from the sutta is important: “Yo hi koci, bhikkhave, samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā imaṃ mahācattārīsakaṃ dhammapariyāyaṃ garahitabbaṃ paṭikkositabbaṃ maññeyya tassa diṭṭheva dhamme dasasahadhammikā vādānuvādā gārayhaṃ ṭhānaṃ āgacchanti—
From Sutta Central translation itself: “If any ascetic or brahmin imagines they can criticize and reject the exposition of the teaching on the Great Forty, they deserve rebuke and criticism on ten legitimate grounds in the present life.”

No matter what we do, we should follow some established guidelines. As I said, I am open to modifying/adding to the above suggestions if it can be improved.
- Otherwise, this process of just quoting incorrect interpretations will only lead to confusion.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:39 pm

Lal wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:55 am
- SarathW and Coemgenu have not provided any reasonable arguments to counter my evidence against Visuddhimagga. Just making statements is not enough.
OK. So, why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency? They had many conversations about the self. What, this business just never came up?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:41 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:01 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:11 am
D. J. Kalupahana thinks Nāgārjuna was a Theravādin. Academics believe all sorts of nonsense things. Especially if they are audacious enough theses to get funding to write papers. Readers will have to read and decide for themselves.

Absolutely no one else believes the Lotus Sūtra was a Sarvāstivāda text.
Actually I very much doubt that Kalupahana himself thought any such thing. What he states is:
The legends in the Lalitavistara go even a step further in describing these events. Although it does not set out the Mahāyāna doctrines as definitely as do the other treatises such as the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka, a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists, yet the miraculous aspect of the life of the Buddha is emphasized, providing new material and relating so many novelties that occasionally the narrative is interrupted to extol the merits of faith (śraddhā), through fear that such a description might cause the followers to doubt its validity.
But I'm virtually certain that there is a typo here and that the clause, "a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists" should come after "the Lalitavistara", thus:
The legends in the Lalitavistara, a Sarvāstivāda text subsequently accepted by the Mahāyānists, go even a step further in describing these events. Although it does not set out the Mahāyāna doctrines as definitely as do the other treatises such as the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka, yet the miraculous aspect of the life of the Buddha is emphasized, providing new material and relating so many novelties that occasionally the narrative is interrupted to extol the merits of faith (śraddhā), through fear that such a description might cause the followers to doubt its validity.
There's no way that a scholar of Kalupahana's calibre would suppose the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka to have started its life as a Sarvāstivādin work.
I thought it was a silly idea, but I was personally sufficiently unimpressed by his work on Venerable Nāgārjuna that I was willing to believe it.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:58 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:39 pm
Lal wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:55 am
- SarathW and Coemgenu have not provided any reasonable arguments to counter my evidence against Visuddhimagga. Just making statements is not enough.
OK. So, why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency? They had many conversations about the self. What, this business just never came up?
Since it doesn't seem like you have any answer to the above simple question, other than to claim that my question is a statement, I can ask another simpler one.

In their Kathāvatthu, why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the heretic Pudgalavāda sect on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency? This one is even easier to answer, you just have to read the text.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Lal
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:06 pm

Coemgenu said:
OK. So, why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency? They had many conversations about the self. What, this business just never came up?
This has nothing to do with my comment on Visuddhimagga. Let us not confuse two different issues. Do we agree that Visuddhimagga is not a reliable source and should not be quoted?

Regarding Sabbatthivāda not paying attention to the Vinaya rule on not to translate the Tipitaka to Sanskrit: Isn't it the same situation today? Even though it is in the Theravada Pali Tipitaka (I gave the Sutta Central reference), it is ignored by Theravadins today. Apparently that is what Sabbatthivādins did too.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:21 pm

Lal wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:06 pm
Coemgenu said:
OK. So, why did the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency? They had many conversations about the self. What, this business just never came up?
This has nothing to do with my comment on Visuddhimagga. Let us not confuse two different issues. Do we agree that Visuddhimagga is not a reliable source and should not be quoted?

Regarding Sabbatthivāda not paying attention to the Vinaya rule on not to translate the Tipitaka to Sanskrit: Isn't it the same situation today? Even though it is in the Theravada Pali Tipitaka (I gave the Sutta Central reference), it is ignored by Theravadins today. Apparently that is what Sabbatthivādins did too.
Actually, at the beginning of our dialogue, I said that I did not much care either way about how Venerable Buddhaghosha teaches meditation. Lots of people find issue with his work. Lots do not.

I am more interested in the alleged mistranslation of anatta. This has been my stance from the beginning, if you go back and read our conversation.

Are you able to answer these questions concerning the dialogue that the ancient Pāli masters had with the Sarvāstivāda and the Pudgalavāda? Why doesn't any of this ever come up?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

Saoshun
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Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Saoshun » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:13 pm

Pure Dhamma helped me to realize insight into this world and bring experiences I didn't have with any of other meditations and traditions.

I pretty understand your stance against it but it's from the very ignorant perspective - those who are in opposite simply cling to their wrong views and what they learned rather than face reality that what they learn is wrong and be happy of right version of Dhamma which enables to enter stream-entry.

People who think anicca is impermanence, dukkha as regular suffering and anatta as no/not-self are just ignorant as those people who think otherwise. You are in opposite just to positive ignorance of this world which means you are in the same ignorance (ie. boat) but with opposite views but at the end of the day is the same. It's the fact. How can you claim and believe things you did not even experience? Non-self ideas can and will make you unstable and paranoid as you will doubt your own existence you will turn into a nut case.

Please, dear Lal, I respect your knowledge but those people are just using you as entertainment for their ignorance. It's clear that they do not want to attain anything but learn Dhamma just to create an illusion of hope based on some faith in falsely understood concepts which block their way into Nibbana. Walls of the security that you built become your prison now. Shame on you. Bhikkhus who commenting with clear aversion and bad intention (not Metta) are creating grave kamma. It's a clear sign that what he said it's true (as I read by now almost whole blog) and that Dhamma degeneration is inevitable.

Please learn Dhamma, attain insight and then we can speak. Not because you claim to have a robe and can focus 15 minutes on the breath or on hour and calm your mind. Sad situation, I suggest to keep away from any forums like that as most people (especially in the west) for them is lifestyle choices or failing in life that why they become bhikkhus so now they using "title" as means to bully other people. Shame.

All the best for your site, blog and hope real Dhamma teachings will rise again in those who are capable of understanding. :anjali: (I'm logging off forever from here)

Do not even bother to answer for that (I mean those bhikkhus which probably will have an itch or be mad as they obviously didn't uproot anything) as I was looking for teachings of Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero beside puredhamma and found this thread so I'm logging off as I was for years. Good luck for those which are capable.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

Lal
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:39 am

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Lal » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:42 pm

Saoshun said:
Please, dear Lal, I respect your knowledge but those people are just using you as entertainment for their ignorance. It's clear that they do not want to attain anything..
Thank you. But I don't think my efforts are in vain. It is not the fault of the bhikkhus or lay people at this time. True teachings have been underground for many hundreds of years. Unless one is fortunate enough to be exposed to the true teachings, one will never have an opportunity to see the truth.
If I had not come across the desanas of the Waharaka Thero, I would be in the same situation.

I am just paying my debts to the Waharaka Thero here. I also know that it is hard to change one's views that have been ingrained for so many years. As long as anyone has questions that seem to be sincere, I will be happy to discuss. I know that at least some are benefiting from these discussions.

Of course, it is up to each individual to decide for oneself. Even the Buddha could not persuade many.

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Coëmgenu
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: The teachings of Ven. Waharaka Abhayaratanalankara Thero

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:53 pm

It is very nice that this teacher is beloved by his fans.

Are any of his enthusiasts able to account for as to why the Theravāda Pāli masters of the past never reprimand the Sabbatthivāda or Pudgalavāda on the very significant issue of their alleged mistranslation of such a key term that occurs with such frequency?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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