Lying about Supramendane Attainments

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Lying about Supramendane Attainments

Post by Hunter » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:36 pm

I read that some monks that lied about acheiving stages of Enlightenment. What would be the Karmic result of this happening. Would they go to Hell or if they changed their act could they still reach different stages of enlightenment?

just a question, thanks!
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."

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Re: Lying about Supramendane Attainments

Post by Annapurna » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:16 pm

Could you give your source please?

Although Buddha said we shouldn't speculate about where we go after this life, hell seems a bit hard for liars, event though the issue would seem severe.

But like I said, we can't tell.

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Re: Lying about Supramendane Attainments

Post by Chula » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:44 pm

Lying, being one of the ten unskillful actions, regardless of what it is about, results in bad results in this life or in lives to come. Any person who hasn't transcended these unskillful actions (at least achieved Stream-Entry) has a possibility of being reborn in hell:

AN 10.176: Cundakammāraputta Sutta
Furthermore, as a result of being endowed with these ten courses of unskillful action, [rebirth in] hell is declared, [rebirth in] an animal womb is declared, [rebirth in] the realm of hungry shades is declared — that or any other bad destination. ... .than.html" onclick=";return false;

That being the case, rebirth in these realms is temporary, and it is possible to change one's ways and achieve the fruits of the path.

You might be talking about the Vinaya rule for monks where lying of attainments entails Defeat (Pārājikā):
Should any bhikkhu, without direct knowledge, claim a superior human state, a truly noble knowledge and vision, as present in himself, saying, "Thus do I know; thus do I see," such that regardless of whether or not he is cross-examined on a later occasion, he — being remorseful and desirous of purification — might say, "Friends, not knowing, I said I know; not seeing, I said I see — vainly, falsely, idly," unless it was from over-estimation, he also is defeated and no longer in affiliation. ... ti.html#pr" onclick=";return false;

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