On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
James Tan
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by James Tan » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:17 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:03 am
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:45 am
No we have not .. but having seen quite a few of his videos .. they seem to go like this

chownah - Hi Guru I am chownah.

Indian Guru/mystic/philosopher - Are you chownah? How do you know you are chownah?

chownah - Because my parents named me chownah and my passport says so.

Indian Guru/mystic/philosopher - Your parents ..? They gave birth to a physical body they named chownah .. atoms and molecules .. but where is chownah?

chownah - I am here. I know I exist :rolleye:

Indian Guru/mystic/philosopher - No you are not chownah!! You think you are .. but does the wall in front of you exist?

chownah - Yes :?

Indian Guru/mystic/philosopher - Of course not you idiot :roll: .. can the wall think I exist .. you said you exist because you know you exist .. the wall in front of you cannot know .. so it does not exist :lol:

and so on .. and on and on and on ad nauseam

I am not saying he was a fraud .. all I am saying the Indian Guru/mystic/philosopher style is very old to Asians (southern and eastern) .. You go to Japan and ask an old zen master what is Buddha .. he takes out a brush pen and draws a large O and keeps silent.

It is very old trope of Indian gurus to carry on neti, neti conversation .. not this, not that description of Brahman delivered with a flair usually to semi-educated western audience who are fascinated by the East.

:namaste:
:namaste:
I don't know UG personally , but , he does gave us , at least myself , a different perspective on how we can look at things .
Of course , according to Theravada Buddhism his attainment does not equate to Buddha liberation .
However , as he is equipped with the necessary attainment which is the requirements for breakthrough , I supposed he should not be very far from liberation per buddhism perspective .
Many ascetics of the Buddha's time could easily attain enlightenment due to their previous cultivation as the foundation .
Just guessing If he were to take birth in deva planes , he would be able to see things differently and possibly have the opportunity to attain liberation there if he is still not liberated .

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:17 pm

I have cut and pasted this conversation from another thread into this one in case anyone has further thoughts regarding what is described below.
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:09 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:06 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am

chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.
ONe think from the red seems on the money: "this would be radical insight that would immediately release one ". Compare this with the sutta: "Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world."
chownah
Snipped from the UGK thread:
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:55 am
chownah wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:08 am
after watching the first two episodes of the video it seems to me that ugk's presentation can be understood in a way which it very similar to what the buddha taught (if one understands the buddha's teaching in a certain way) but the main difference is that the buddha claims that there is a way out of samsara and ugk claims that there is not. Since there are very few (none?) credible clear examples of those who have escaped samsara walking around today and there are alot of people saying that they are trying to escape but as of yet have not, it is difficult in the absence of faith to know who is right.
chownah
Chownah,

I had an interesting conversation today with a friend who also knew UG and we talked about this very issue of No Way Out. This was a common theme in UG's chats with friends, 'is there anything to be done?' Both of us felt that no one could come to the end of samsara by any act of their own will or any manipulation of mind or body, ie., meditation. The very impulse of resistance to your own present state must stop. This insight deepens and weakens the will, your desire to escape from what is, samsara. Samsara is just a name for your own condition. When this resistance disappears, this triggers the event of the natural state. In a sense, a complete letting go of all desire to be something else takes place. You have to struggle a lot to understand that your own struggle is futile. No path means the end of becoming. UG lived this as an example. This is not an heroic struggle. That is a romance novel. There is no victory or gain. It is simply the cessation of ignorance, the deception that you can do something about escaping your own misery. Misery being your ordinary life and all its strategies, philosophies, and tactics, to achieve enlightenment, awakening, ultimate truth, etc. It's a hard pill to swallow. When you see such a person like UG, he was empty of any self reference or self aggrandizement. He never waivered from this. There was no inner life going on. He told me once, 'you don't know if you are alive or dead'.
I quoted the above because it relates to what we spoke of many months ago in the UGK thread. You mention that there are few or non credible, clear examples of those who have escaped Samsara walking around today, yet what UG speaks about in the video that I posted in that thread clearly attests to his own end of the struggle. How he describes this is simply the best description I have ever come across in 50 years of interest in this subject. It is devoid of dogma, path, and the development of any techniques of thought control, ie., meditation, all being the myth of self, world, and the dream of existence. Because it is spoken in everyday language, it is accessible to all. No need to learn new words, new behaviors, new beliefs.

For me, the distortion of the Buddha's teaching over the centuries has made it into another cult/religion that people adapt to no matter how much they deny that they are doing it. Every philosophy, religion, and science that tries to describe the nature of the universe, man, and the time/space continuum are doomed to failure because it is all done through the thought structure which cannot know and doesn't want to know anything but itself, its knowledge, and its survival.
I would suggest to anyone that they slowly watch the video that was originally posted early in this thread to really get a good sense of what UG was all about and how he approaches the ideas of enlightenment, meditation, and the division of self and world.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by dylanj » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:55 pm

So, what's the connection?
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Pseudobabble » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:05 am

dylanj wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:55 pm
So, what's the connection?
You don't see it?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:43 am

UG
Can you tell me how mango juice tastes? I can't. You also cannot; but you try to relive the memory of mango juice now -- you create for yourself some kind of an experience of how it tastes -- which I cannot do. I must have mango juice on my tongue -- seeing or smelling it is not enough -- in order to be able to bring that past knowledge into operation and to say "Yes, this is what mango juice tastes like." This does not mean that personal preferences and 'tastes' change. In a market my hand automatically reaches out for the same items that I have liked all my life. But because I cannot conjure up a mental experience, there can be no craving for foods which are not there.
He must have been not knowing about triggers. You gotta trigger the taste, you can use imagination for that where you actually eat fruit, even the water starts running in mouth.

So his entire philosphy, countless hours of satsangs are based about state where that ability is cut off? ability to create stories, dreams etc.
Smell plays a greater part in your daily life than does taste. The olfactory organs are constantly open to odors. But if you do not interfere with the sense of smell, what is there is only an irritation in the nose. It makes no difference whether you are smelling cow dung or an expensive French perfume -- you rub the nose and move on.
Yes and i suggest you to also use tactile sensation too, just walk away from prison cell, you can do this, just rub off the tactile sensation.

To me for now he is willfully try to enforce ignorance. Just ignore that the molecules actually enter your body, bacteria, algea in bloodstream affecting you without you knowing it.
You have a feeling that there is a 'cameraman' who is directing the eyes. But left to themselves -- when there is no 'cameraman' -- the eyes do not linger, but are moving all the time. They are drawn by the things outside. Movement attracts them, or brightness or a color which stands out from whatever is around it. There is no 'I' looking; mountains, flowers, trees, cows, all look at me. The consciousness is like a mirror, reflecting whatever is there outside. The depth, the distance, the color, everything is there, but there is nobody who is translating these things. Unless there is a demand for knowledge about what I am looking at, there is no separation, no distance from what is there. It may not actually be possible to count the hairs on the head of someone sitting across the room, but there is a kind of clarity which seems as if I could.
he relays of whoever listen to him understand what he talks on that same ability to imagine what he talks. That state what he describes is easy to got into.
The eyes do not blink, except when there is sudden danger -- this is something very natural because the things outside are demanding attention all the time. Then, when the eyes are tired, a built-in mechanism in the body cuts them out -- they may be open, but they are blurred. But if the eyes stay open all the time, if the reflex action of blinking is not operating, they become dry and you will go blind; so there are some glands beyond the outer corners of the eyes, which are not activated in your case, which act as a watering mechanism. Tears flow all the time from the outer corners. Ignorant people have described them as 'tears of joy' or 'tears of bliss'. There is nothing divine about them. By practicing not blinking, one will not arrive in this state; one will only strain the eyes. And there are neurotics in mental hospitals whose eyes do not blink for one reason or another -- for them it is a pathological condition. But once you are in your natural state, by some luck or some strange chance, all this happens in its own way. "
that same state after bliss or whatever is gone, boredom will rise and stress will come. He isn't going to talk about these states?
Is there in you an entity which you call the 'I' or the 'mind' or the 'self'? Is there a co- ordinator who is co-ordinating what you are looking at with what you are listening to, what you are smelling with what you are tasting, and so on? Or is there anything which links together the various sensations originating from a single sense -- the flow of impulses from the eyes, for example? Actually, there is always a gap between any two sensations. The co-ordinator bridges that gap: he establishes himself as an illusion of continuity.
yes there is I, when you are on a natural state then you can focus on the sensation of "i" triggered by self-referential thought, it needs to be triggered so many times till there happen next thing or change...there is many state what follow, its just mere beginning state of developing proper sense of self.
The sense of self goes through the body and hands. And there is no gap once you have gotten the feedback going, it will become fluid, energy, internal sensations. View and the being is one.

I think he blows up the natural state so big that it seem he is oblivious about what's will come next. Specially urges what will come and how to trigger them. And occassional suffering periods.
The gap what is is between two thoughts is a deep sleep state, it will be filled with awareness.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:18 pm

gotta forgive him since he couldn't use search engine to search what he could do and then get to read relevant passages from many others who can do the same so that to take the vanity off the state.

Search engines can get into books, so you also could read further what to expect and what you should be see and what signs. No need to hear thousands of hours of satsang about one simple thing what is not that great at all when to know how more there is.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:01 pm

auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:18 pm
gotta forgive him since he couldn't use search engine to search what he could do and then get to read relevant passages from many others who can do the same so that to take the vanity off the state.

Search engines can get into books, so you also could read further what to expect and what you should be see and what signs. No need to hear thousands of hours of satsang about one simple thing what is not that great at all when to know how more there is.
UG seems to draw out a lot of response from you. The problem is that I cannot understand what you are talking about and what you are trying to say.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:56 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:01 pm
auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:18 pm
gotta forgive him since he couldn't use search engine to search what he could do and then get to read relevant passages from many others who can do the same so that to take the vanity off the state.

Search engines can get into books, so you also could read further what to expect and what you should be see and what signs. No need to hear thousands of hours of satsang about one simple thing what is not that great at all when to know how more there is.
UG seems to draw out a lot of response from you. The problem is that I cannot understand what you are talking about and what you are trying to say.
A tree who has grow old like 100 years being unmoved has an energy what can help with some urges to relocate, its because tree has cultivated that long it can affect you when being near it.

I suggest you to stay put in one place and when urge comes crush that urge for once, you can't, it is not possible unless there comes a raft. That raft is yourself what has cultivated 'doing' and now can have knowledge what is not doing.

Yea boi its complicated.

forgive means, that you can use that energy to cure your undone things. Yes he draws lots of response because he ignores that it is conditions what put potato grow, so you should look into cause and cultivate that to get understanding.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:23 pm

You don't understand what i say because you don't know cause and effect. That a lightbulb needs energy to light up a bulb. You think that you can escape this responsibility through giving up the struggle and therefore remain to live in the dark??

I would love to hear your reasons for taking refuge on enlightened being. To me UD doesn't sound enlightened or even close to it, he does not solve issues he explains how drop out of school instead.

wiki
Bodhi (/ˈboʊdi/; Sanskrit: बोधि; Pali: bodhi) in Buddhism is the understanding possessed by a Buddha regarding the true nature of things. It is traditionally translated into English with the word enlightenment, although its literal meaning is closer to "awakening". The verbal root budh- means "to awaken."
The root of the word dharma is "dhri", which means "to support, hold, or bear". It is the thing that regulates the course of change by not participating in change, but that principle which remains constant.[

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:07 pm

auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:23 pm
You don't understand what i say because you don't know cause and effect. That a lightbulb needs energy to light up a bulb. You think that you can escape this responsibility through giving up the struggle and therefore remain to live in the dark??

I would love to hear your reasons for taking refuge on enlightened being. To me UD doesn't sound enlightened or even close to it, he does not solve issues he explains how drop out of school instead.

wiki
Bodhi (/ˈboʊdi/; Sanskrit: बोधि; Pali: bodhi) in Buddhism is the understanding possessed by a Buddha regarding the true nature of things. It is traditionally translated into English with the word enlightenment, although its literal meaning is closer to "awakening". The verbal root budh- means "to awaken."
The root of the word dharma is "dhri", which means "to support, hold, or bear". It is the thing that regulates the course of change by not participating in change, but that principle which remains constant.[
English is not your native language, is it? This is the reason I don't understand your writing. Your ideas are all over the place and I cannot follow your logic. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have something that you are at odds with here. But, what it is, is not clear to me because you don't seem to be able to explain it in plain English.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:39 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:07 pm
auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:23 pm
You don't understand what i say because you don't know cause and effect. That a lightbulb needs energy to light up a bulb. You think that you can escape this responsibility through giving up the struggle and therefore remain to live in the dark??

I would love to hear your reasons for taking refuge on enlightened being. To me UD doesn't sound enlightened or even close to it, he does not solve issues he explains how drop out of school instead.

wiki
Bodhi (/ˈboʊdi/; Sanskrit: बोधि; Pali: bodhi) in Buddhism is the understanding possessed by a Buddha regarding the true nature of things. It is traditionally translated into English with the word enlightenment, although its literal meaning is closer to "awakening". The verbal root budh- means "to awaken."
The root of the word dharma is "dhri", which means "to support, hold, or bear". It is the thing that regulates the course of change by not participating in change, but that principle which remains constant.[
English is not your native language, is it? This is the reason I don't understand your writing. Your ideas are all over the place and I cannot follow your logic. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have something that you are at odds with here. But, what it is, is not clear to me because you don't seem to be able to explain it in plain English.
English is not my first language. What you mean is my literature skill, it has failed me, in that part i am below average and below getting positive grades in fairly average school.
i suck at writing stories and communicating my thoghts. Must be fun, i biologically supercede UG.

Actually i don't understand what you say or anyone else. For an example this sentence:
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have something that you are at odds with here.
I have zero understanding what it means. (nobleman expressions on 14th century england how they talk with each other is not my expertize)

Compared to me how i speak, like i am tired then i feel urge to lay down etc seem very easy to understand. So i think its your complacent brain.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:32 pm

UG
Smell plays a greater part in your daily life than does taste. The olfactory organs are constantly open to odors. But if you do not interfere with the sense of smell, what is there is only an irritation in the nose. It makes no difference whether you are smelling cow dung or an expensive French perfume -- you rub the nose and move on.
Just lets take that above sentence. It doesn't take into account that if you are in a closed room you can't move on without figuring out that you need use door.
Imagine now with hidden walls, he just ignores them that they are there, so he breaks rules, he don't use handle and door to move from one room to another, he is brute.

There is many ways to breath, and certain breath allows to get to another part of the body and use that function there for an example come aware in a certain way to cultivate that state.

All critics is based on fact that he is anti-meditator cultivater, doesn't know the subtle ways therfore.

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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:50 am

auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:32 pm
UG
Smell plays a greater part in your daily life than does taste. The olfactory organs are constantly open to odors. But if you do not interfere with the sense of smell, what is there is only an irritation in the nose. It makes no difference whether you are smelling cow dung or an expensive French perfume -- you rub the nose and move on.
Just lets take that above sentence. It doesn't take into account that if you are in a closed room you can't move on without figuring out that you need use door.
Imagine now with hidden walls, he just ignores them that they are there, so he breaks rules, he don't use handle and door to move from one room to another, he is brute.

There is many ways to breath, and certain breath allows to get to another part of the body and use that function there for an example come aware in a certain way to cultivate that state.

All critics is based on fact that he is anti-meditator cultivater, doesn't know the subtle ways therfore.
Do you know what the expression 'down a rabbit hole' means in English? I think you have fallen into a rabbit hole. You will have to extricate yourself from it before you could enter into a real dialogue on what UG was talking about. Since you are almost unintelligible in your responses, I don't hold out much hope that we can really discuss anything.

auto
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by auto » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:28 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:50 am
auto wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:32 pm
UG
Smell plays a greater part in your daily life than does taste. The olfactory organs are constantly open to odors. But if you do not interfere with the sense of smell, what is there is only an irritation in the nose. It makes no difference whether you are smelling cow dung or an expensive French perfume -- you rub the nose and move on.
Just lets take that above sentence. It doesn't take into account that if you are in a closed room you can't move on without figuring out that you need use door.
Imagine now with hidden walls, he just ignores them that they are there, so he breaks rules, he don't use handle and door to move from one room to another, he is brute.

There is many ways to breath, and certain breath allows to get to another part of the body and use that function there for an example come aware in a certain way to cultivate that state.

All critics is based on fact that he is anti-meditator cultivater, doesn't know the subtle ways therfore.
Do you know what the expression 'down a rabbit hole' means in English? I think you have fallen into a rabbit hole. You will have to extricate yourself from it before you could enter into a real dialogue on what UG was talking about. Since you are almost unintelligible in your responses, I don't hold out much hope that we can really discuss anything.
http://inner-quest.org/UG_Natural_State.htm
This state of "not knowing", or natural state, is not just my particular state. This is as much your natural state as it is mine. It is not the state of a God-realised man, a Self-realised man. It is not the state of a holy man. It is the natural state of every one of you here. But since you are looking to somebody else and you are reaching out for some kind of a state of liberation or freedom, you are lost.
-
Can this natural state be captured, contained and expressed through words? It cannot. It is not a conscious state of your existence. It can never become part of your conscious thinking. And then why do I talk of this state of "not knowing"? For all practical purposes it does not exist at all. It can never become part of your conscious thinking.
-
Here, I have to explain what I mean by the word "consciousness". You and I mean two different things, probably – I don't know. When do you become conscious of a thing? Only when the thought comes in between what is there in front of you and what is supposed to be there inside of you. That is consciousness...
So, you have to necessarily use thought to become conscious of the things around you, or the persons around you. Otherwise, you are not conscious of the things at all.
--
What can anyone do about this thought? It has a tremendous momentum of millions and millions of years. Can I do anything about that thought? Can I stop it? Can I mould it? Can I shape it? Can I do anything about it?.....
When I say that, I do not, of course, mean what these people in India talk about – that thought must be used in order to get into a thoughtless state or into a meditative state. But there is no such thing as a thoughtless state at all. Thoughts are there; they will be there all the time. Thoughts will disappear only when you become a dead corpse – let me use these two words – "dead corpse".
-
They can promise you that in that thoughtless state – in that state of silence, in that state of quietness, or in that state of a "quiet mind", or whatever phrase you want to use – there will be this real "bliss", "beatitude","love", "religious joy" and "ecstatic state of being". All that is balderdash. Because, that state – if there is any state like the state of bliss – it can never become part of your consciousness. It can never become part of your conscious existence. So, you might as well throw the whole thing – the whole crap of these ideas, concepts and abstractions about the blissful states – into a cocked hat, if I may use that American slang.
-
So, what is one to do? Can anybody help you? No outside agency can help you. That means a complete and total rejection, as I said in the beginning, of all that man has thought and felt before you. As long as there is any trace of knowledge, in any shape, in any form, in your consciousness, you are living in a divided state of consciousness.
-
I refer to my coming into a state of "not knowing" as "the calamity". What happened? I don't know. Suddenly thought has fallen into its natural state. The continuity has come to an end. So, what I am saying is not the product of thinking. It is not manufactured by my thought structure inside. Nor is it a logically ascertained premise.
See i'm smart enough to find out what he talks about and know exactly even in deep mud i can recognize what is the pinpoint. Im not interested in listening endless talks where he try to get people into that state.
He made up his own terms for that state, theory etc. Its him who doesn't understand other people who have also gotten that state who made their own terms, and it seem what is common for them is to bash them who try to get into that state in various means.

And for you to know there still are different grades to it, inferior, middle and superior. His heart or something weren't open enough to let other people in and listen to them.

I listen on internet from hedonist people about "something", i had disgusting feeling arose, before i didn't felt its the result of cultivation i could able to take it longer watch without starting to demonstrate aversion, i at one point decided to open up and i got sick from my own toxicness what got triggered by listening them.

Yes i downplay that natural state.
The continuity has come to an end. So, what I am saying is not the product of thinking. It is not manufactured by my thought structure inside. Nor is it a logically ascertained premise. But what is happening here is only the expression of that state of being where you do not know what is happening. You do not know how this organism is functioning. This is a pure and simple physical and physiological state of being. It has no religious undertones or overtones. It has no mystical content whatsoever. And, at the same time, this extraordinary thing, the extraordinary intelligence that is there, which is a product of centuries of human evolution, is able to express itself and deal with any problem and any situation without creating problems for us.
When on that natural state there is unknowng, nothing , but its because you haven't developed energy, internal breath, it appears, at first there is only very little; sense of self etc, all mystic states come from that natural state.
Also lucid dream, when you become aware of yourself, the dream has end and coming aware of reality where you were coming.

So yes the state is oridnary and nothing to talk about nothign to feel about, but then you should use focus and cocnetration or triggers so you can do somethign what also same time won't kick you out of that state etc, there is so many possibilities but there is a Way, i think he did discover the state but didn't discover the way?

While he recognize the intelligence too, but still remains bashing those who try to get into that state various means. I think he don't realize you need "calamity" to get to that state. So perhaps he is genious, he bashes others so to cause calamity.
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Saengnapha?

You said you finally got what he spoke, do you have natural state? Do you have acquired natural state season pass?

Saengnapha
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Re: On U.G. Krishnamurti:The Dharma Seals Of A Non-Buddhist

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:48 pm

auto wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:28 am
Saengnapha?

You said you finally got what he spoke, do you have natural state? Do you have acquired natural state season pass?
No one acquires the natural state. It is what is already there when you stop using the thought structure to try to 'become' someone/something. All UG is talking about is the futility of using a tool (mind/thought structure) that has created psychological suffering in order to end it. It cannot end itself and has no desire to. It is only going to produce more suffering, nothing more. It is endless illusion, trickery. If you understand this, you stop trying to 'become' because you see this illusion clearly. This is dispassion or disinterest and you let go of these illusory ideas about yourself and any attainments that you have been told that you need. The natural state is not something that exists. It is a figure of speech, just like nibbana. Your own thinking cannot capture anything except what it already has learned and that is conditioned. If you come to this point, we don't need to discuss anything more. You will see it clearly and you will not engage in these useless, fruitless dialogues.

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