Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Nibbana-element with residue left
2
29%
Nibbana-element with no residue left
5
71%
 
Total votes: 7

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:57 am

Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Please discuss. :smile:
This was said by the Lord...

Bhikkhus, there are these two Nibbana-elements. What are the two? The Nibbana-element with residue left and the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.

Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant... completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

These, bhikkhus, are the two Nibbana-elements.

These two Nibbana-elements were made known
By the Seeing One, stable and unattached:
One is the element seen here and now
With residue, but with the cord of being destroyed;
The other, having no residue for the future,
Is that wherein all modes of being utterly cease.

Having understood the unconditioned state,
Released in mind with the cord of being destroyed,
They have attained to the Dhamma-essence.
Delighting in the destruction (of craving),
Those stable ones have abandoned all being.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... ml#iti-044

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:21 am

I voted Nibbana with no residue left.
I don't like my back pain.
Having said that, irrespective of my back pain, I like to help some people with my attainment before my Parinibana.
:mrgreen:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Ruud
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:07 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by Ruud » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:27 am

Neither, since an arahant, having extinguished attachment, hatred and delusion, wouldn't be attracted or averse to either. So no more or less important.
And for worldlings, as long as you didn't reach Nibbana, it doesn't matter either.
Dry up what pertains to the past,
do not take up anything to come later.
If you will not grasp in the middle,
you will live at peace.
—Snp.5.11,v.1099 (tr. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)

Whatever is will be was. —Ven. Ñānamoli, A Thinkers Notebook, §221

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:42 am

Ruud wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:27 am
Neither, since an arahant, having extinguished attachment, hatred and delusion, wouldn't be attracted or averse to either. So no more or less important.
And for worldlings, as long as you didn't reach Nibbana, it doesn't matter either.
Seems like the only logical answer to the question.

User avatar
pitakele
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:27 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by pitakele » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:54 am

Ruud wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:27 am
Neither, since an arahant, having extinguished attachment, hatred and delusion, wouldn't be attracted or averse to either.
Ven. Saṅkicca

Nābhinandāmi maraṇaṃ,
nābhinandāmi jīvitaṃ;
Kālañca paṭikaṅkhāmi,
nibbisaṃ bhatako yathā.

I don’t long for death;
I don’t long for life;
I await my time,
Like a worker waiting for their wages.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/thag11.1
now here = nowhere

justindesilva
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 am

I cannot even visualuze nibbana. If I will attain nibbana I do not wish to have residues.
But I contemplate on at least a sotapanna , to be qualified.

justindesilva
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:58 am

I cannot even visualuze nibbana. If I will attain nibbana I do not wish to have residues.
But I contemplate on at least to be a sotapanna , to be qualified.

User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 757
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:01 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by seeker242 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:03 am

Where is the option for "equally important"? :smile:

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:07 am

seeker242 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:03 am
Where is the option for "equally important"? :smile:
Another option might take the spark, reflection &/or conviction out of the discussion. :smile:

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm

justindesilva wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 am
I cannot even visualuze nibbana. If I will attain nibbana I do not wish to have residues.
But I contemplate on at least a sotapanna , to be qualified.
Of course, you can't, it is not visualizable.

User avatar
pitakele
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:27 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by pitakele » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm
justindesilva wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 am
I cannot even visualuze nibbana. If I will attain nibbana I do not wish to have residues.
But I contemplate on at least a sotapanna , to be qualified.
Of course, you can't, it is not visualizable.
I think he meant 'envisage' - 'contemplate as a possibility' 🙃
now here = nowhere

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:41 pm

there's not two types of nibbāna.
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

User avatar
equilibrium
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:07 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by equilibrium » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:18 pm

Neither of them are important.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:12 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:41 pm
there's not two types of nibbāna.
So what does the quote below mean if there is not two Nibbana elements?
This was said by the Lord...

Bhikkhus, there are these two Nibbana-elements. What are the two? The Nibbana-element with residue left and the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Which type of Nibbana is the most important?

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:54 am

pitakele wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:01 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm
justindesilva wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 am
I cannot even visualuze nibbana. If I will attain nibbana I do not wish to have residues.
But I contemplate on at least a sotapanna , to be qualified.
Of course, you can't, it is not visualizable.
I think he meant 'envisage' - 'contemplate as a possibility' 🙃
You mean 'fantacize'?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A. Bhikkhu, Sam Vara and 31 guests