The practice is not about not allowing feeling to arise . But , to observe the arising and passing away of the aggregates and in that the insight arises which resulting in right view and cut off the craving therefore the ending of defilements .Saengnapha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:40 am
We have monks like Buddhadasa talking about practicing at the level of contact, subjugating the 5 aggregates and not allowing feeling to arise and give rise to craving. That alone is almost impossible for most to do or comprehend.
Bundles of reeds simile.
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
You always gain by giving
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
That does sound pessimistic. I have no more useful input, in that case.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:46 am If you've read my posts, I don't make that claim. In fact, I hope there are others for the sake of mankind, but I am on the pessimistic side when it comes to Buddhism in its current forms. . .
Best Wishes.
Mike
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Why did Buddha teach Dependent Origination?How is it possible to explain dependent origination
What is the purpose?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
The exact quote is this: "it entails rigorous cultivation such that when there is Contact in the sense base, Right Mindfulness is applied to subjugate Feeling, thus preventing its advance to Craving, Clinging, and Existence/Birth. In actual practice, a term such as “dependent origination” is unnecessary. "James Tan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 pmThe practice is not about not allowing feeling to arise . But , to observe the arising and passing away of the aggregates and in that the insight arises which resulting in right view and cut off the craving therefore the ending of defilements .Saengnapha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:40 am
We have monks like Buddhadasa talking about practicing at the level of contact, subjugating the 5 aggregates and not allowing feeling to arise and give rise to craving. That alone is almost impossible for most to do or comprehend.
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Greetings Sarath,
Dependent origination explains an ignorant mis-understanding of emptiness, and its consequences.
In cessation mode, it explains that when that ignorant misunderstanding ceases, "origination" based upon it ceases too.
Metta,
Paul.
( Same answer as above... )
Dependent origination explains an ignorant mis-understanding of emptiness, and its consequences.
In cessation mode, it explains that when that ignorant misunderstanding ceases, "origination" based upon it ceases too.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Dependent Origination is a context.
Cultivating impermanence is the practice.
Cultivating impermanence is the practice.
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Greetings,
Metta,
Paul.
How do you "cultivate impermanence" when all fabricated dhammas are impermanent anyway, with or without your practice?
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
We do not have to cultivate impermanace. ( Anitya). We are living with it , as explained in Dammacakka pavattana sutta. Cultivation of living with it is our concern , as explained in 3rd and 4th noble truths. Such cultivation which is moral development is made through following the noble eightfold path.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 am Greetings,
How do you "cultivate impermanence" when all fabricated dhammas are impermanent anyway, with or without your practice?
Metta,
Paul.
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
That's apparently Ajahn Buddhadasa's interpretation, if the translation is accurate (it says "translated from Chinese, and presumably it was originally spoken in Thai...):Saengnapha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:59 amThe exact quote is this: "it entails rigorous cultivation such that when there is Contact in the sense base, Right Mindfulness is applied to subjugate Feeling, thus preventing its advance to Craving, Clinging, and Existence/Birth. In actual practice, a term such as “dependent origination” is unnecessary. "James Tan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 pmThe practice is not about not allowing feeling to arise . But , to observe the arising and passing away of the aggregates and in that the insight arises which resulting in right view and cut off the craving therefore the ending of defilements .Saengnapha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:40 am
We have monks like Buddhadasa talking about practicing at the level of contact, subjugating the 5 aggregates and not allowing feeling to arise and give rise to craving. That alone is almost impossible for most to do or comprehend.
https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books6/Bhik ... uppada.htm
Earlier in the paragraph the translation reads:
That sounds less controversial: if one has good awareness, one notices the arising of feeling and has more choice over what follows.it teaches awareness of Contacts at the sense bases to prevent Feeling from advancing to Craving.
Mike
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Hi retro, would you mind explaining in detail the meaning of this brief passage?retrofuturist wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:17 am Dependent origination explains an ignorant mis-understanding of emptiness, and its consequences.
Are you using emptiness in this sense? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5 ... of_dhammas
Obviously DO explains how ignorance leads to suffering. And all that arises is empty of self. But I'm intrigued by your wording...It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?" The Buddha replied, "Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ānanda, that the world is empty.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.85/
Mike
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Greetings Mike,
Next time I am at a PC, I will... because I want to source some quotes - definitely from Nanavira, but possibly others too.
If I happen to forget, don't hesitate to remind me.
Metta,
Paul.
Next time I am at a PC, I will... because I want to source some quotes - definitely from Nanavira, but possibly others too.
If I happen to forget, don't hesitate to remind me.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
“Perceiving impermanence, bhikkhus, developed and frequently practised, removes all sensual desire, removes all desire for material existence, removes all desire for becoming, removes all ignorance, and tears out all conceit of ’I am.’”
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
I don't see much difference in the two quotes, personally. Have you read Buddhadasa's essay on the two ways of interpretation? One is people language, the other is dhamma language. The difference in interpretation according to him lies in the difference between these two ways of speaking. The Buddha spoke in both, hence the need for re-interpretive language to explain Dhamma. Buddhadasa was a kind of reformer or at least pointed out the need to reform Theravada and re-interpret his teachings. He was quite against Buddhaghosa's interpretations which have ruled Theravada since. But, you probably know all this already.mikenz66 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:52 amThat's apparently Ajahn Buddhadasa's interpretation, if the translation is accurate (it says "translated from Chinese, and presumably it was originally spoken in Thai...):Saengnapha wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:59 amThe exact quote is this: "it entails rigorous cultivation such that when there is Contact in the sense base, Right Mindfulness is applied to subjugate Feeling, thus preventing its advance to Craving, Clinging, and Existence/Birth. In actual practice, a term such as “dependent origination” is unnecessary. "
https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books6/Bhik ... uppada.htm
Earlier in the paragraph the translation reads:That sounds less controversial: if one has good awareness, one notices the arising of feeling and has more choice over what follows.it teaches awareness of Contacts at the sense bases to prevent Feeling from advancing to Craving.
Mike
Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Yes I'm aware of Buddhadasa's views. They are intersting and somewhat unique.
Mike
Mike
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Re: Bundles of reeds simile.
Indeed, and as I observed, most DO suttas don't actually describe a mutual dependence of consciousness and name+form.
I tend to go with the nidana "definitions" in SN12.2, given that SN12 is the main treatment of DO in the suttas. You can make DO mean pretty anything you want by moving away from these definitions, but this often seems the result of peoples' attachment to a particular theory, it ends up with square pegs and round holes, a bit of a mess.
In any case think it's worth remembering that DO is an elaboration of the Second Noble Truth.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Buddha save me from new-agers!