Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Kumara
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Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 2:40 am

I've seen statements like "When one is in jhana, all defilements are suppressed temporarily." Is there any scriptural source for this?
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paul
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by paul » Thu May 24, 2018 3:59 am

“There are five mental constituents which are chiefly representative of the first meditative absorption, and are therefore called the factors of absorption (jhananga). For each of these there is, according to Buddhist commentarial tradition, one of the five hindrances that is specifically harmful for it and excludes its higher development and refinement to the degree required for jhana; and on the other hand, the cultivation of these five factors beyond their average level will be an antidote against the hindrances, preparing the road to jhana.” “The Five Mental Hindrances and Their Conquest”, Nyanaponika.

“For the hindrances are the contrary opposites of the jhána factors: what is meant is that the jhána factors are incompatible with them, eliminate them, abolish them. And it is said accordingly in the Peþaka (Peþakopadesa): “Concentration is incompatible with lust, happiness with ill will, applied thought with stiffness and torpor, bliss with agitation and worry, and sustained thought with uncertainty” —-“Visuddhimagga”, IV:86

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Kumara
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 am

paul wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:59 am
“...the five hindrances..."
I'm referring to "all defilements", not just the 5 hindrances. Thanks for trying anyway.
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by DooDoot » Thu May 24, 2018 4:21 am

I haven't yet read the term "suppression" in any suttas in relation to jhana.
On returning from his almsround, after his meal he sits down, folding his legs crosswise, setting his body erect, and establishing mindfulness before him. Abandoning covetousness for the world, he abides with a mind free from covetousness; he purifies his mind from covetousness. Abandoning ill will and hatred, he abides with a mind free from ill will, compassionate for the welfare of all living beings; he purifies his mind from ill will and hatred. Abandoning sloth and torpor, he abides free from sloth and torpor, percipient of light, mindful and fully aware; he purifies his mind from sloth and torpor. Abandoning restlessness and remorse, he abides unagitated with a mind inwardly peaceful; he purifies his mind from restlessness and remorse. Abandoning doubt, he abides having gone beyond doubt, unperplexed about wholesome states; he purifies his mind from doubt.

https://suttacentral.net/mn27/en/bodhi

Abandoning covetousness with regard to the world, he dwells with an awareness devoid of covetousness. He cleanses his mind of covetousness. Abandoning ill will & anger, he dwells with an awareness devoid of ill will, sympathetic with the welfare of all living beings. He cleanses his mind of ill will & anger. Abandoning sloth & drowsiness, he dwells with an awareness devoid of sloth & drowsiness, mindful, alert, percipient of light. He cleanses his mind of sloth & drowsiness. Abandoning restlessness & anxiety, he dwells undisturbed, his mind inwardly stilled. He cleanses his mind of restlessness & anxiety. Abandoning uncertainty, he dwells having crossed over uncertainty, with no perplexity with regard to skillful mental qualities. He cleanses his mind of uncertainty.

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Kumara
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 4:28 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:21 am
I haven't yet read the term "suppression" in any suttas in relation to jhana.
Same here. I don't expect to find such an idea in the Suttas. I'm wondering if it might have come from a later text.
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SarathW
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by SarathW » Thu May 24, 2018 4:50 am

There are five mental constituents which are chiefly representative of the first meditative absorption, and are therefore called the factors of absorption (jhananga). For each of these there is, according to Buddhist commentarial tradition, one of the five hindrances that is specifically harmful for it and excludes its higher development and refinement to the degree required for jhana; and on the other hand, the cultivation of these five factors beyond their average level will be an antidote against the hindrances, preparing the road to jhana. The relationship between these two groups of five is indicated in this anthology, under the heading of the respective hindrance.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el026.html
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu May 24, 2018 4:55 am

In the same way, as long as these five hindrances are not given up inside themselves, a mendicant regards them thus as a debt, a disease, a prison, slavery, and a desert crossing.

But when these five hindrances are given up inside themselves, a mendicant regards this as freedom from debt, good health, release from prison, emancipation, and sanctuary.

Seeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed.

https://suttacentral.net/dn2/en/sujato
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 am

The "suppressed" word is a translation issue. If I remember correctly it's just a different way some translators translate Purified or Cleansed or Abandoned.
Kumara wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 am
I'm referring to "all defilements", not just the 5 hindrances. Thanks for trying anyway.
The 5 hindrances are the cause of all the defilements... All defilements are just outflowings and combinations of those five hindrances.
So when the 5 hindrances are Suppressed or Cleansed or Purified or Abandoned, then all defilements are also gone.

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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by SarathW » Thu May 24, 2018 5:19 am

I'm wondering if it might have come from a later text.
I can't recall reading anywhere that all defilements temporarily suppressed when in Jhana.
Jhana specifically refer to five hindrances.
Where did you find it?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by DooDoot » Thu May 24, 2018 6:01 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 am
The "suppressed" word is a translation issue.
My impression is suppression is an idea from using mental force to push down defilements (rather than using wisdom to dissolve defilements).
Bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu is giving attention to some sign, and owing to that sign there arise in him evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, then when he [using wisdom] gives attention to some other sign connected with what is wholesome, any such evil unwholesome thoughts are abandoned in him and subside, and with the abandoning of them his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated. When he [using wisdom] examines the danger in those thoughts…When he [using wisdom; non-attachment] tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them…When he [using wisdom] gives attention to stilling the thought-formation of those thoughts…When, [using suppression] with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth, he beats down, constrains, and crushes mind with mind, any such evil unwholesome thoughts are abandoned in him…and his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and concentrated.

MN 20
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Kumara
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 7:20 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:01 am
The "suppressed" word is a translation issue. If I remember correctly it's just a different way some translators translate Purified or Cleansed or Abandoned.
Source?
Kumara wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:16 am
I'm referring to "all defilements", not just the 5 hindrances. Thanks for trying anyway.
The 5 hindrances are the cause of all the defilements... All defilements are just outflowings and combinations of those five hindrances.
So when the 5 hindrances are Suppressed or Cleansed or Purified or Abandoned, then all defilements are also gone.
According to who?
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Kumara
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 7:23 am

I appreciate the attention given to this thread, but please let me highlight my query again:
Kumara wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:40 am
I've seen statements like "When one is in jhana, all defilements are suppressed temporarily." Is there any scriptural source for this?
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu May 24, 2018 7:24 am

Kumara wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:20 am
According to who?
Sorry, I'm not a scholar or one of those clever people who remember where they read things. I dunno.
Last edited by JamesTheGiant on Thu May 24, 2018 7:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Kumara
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by Kumara » Thu May 24, 2018 7:25 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:19 am
I'm wondering if it might have come from a later text.
I can't recall reading anywhere that all defilements temporarily suppressed when in Jhana.
Jhana specifically refer to five hindrances.
Where did you find it?
You can google it. FYI, I've heard it before Google existed, before the Internet was commonly used.
I'm not just a monk. I'm a human being. — Sayadaw U Jotika

SarathW
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Re: Seeking scriptural source for "all defilements temporarily suppressed when in jhana"

Post by SarathW » Thu May 24, 2018 7:33 am

I've heard it before Google existed
Did you find it reading a book or heard from a teacher?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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