What do u guys think of these expressions, the first thing that come to your mind.
1) occult Buddhism
2) occult knowledge that arises from jhana
Musings on Tantra and Mayahana (from: Tantric Theravada?)
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Re: Tantric Theravada?
If I was doing a free association test I would say "Waste of time." This is pretty much what every Buddhist monk has said when asked in my presence with one exception. That exception was an American Theravada monk in Thailand who said that it was kind of interesting to talk about, but not of importance.form wrote:What do u guys think of these expressions, the first thing that come to your mind.
1) occult Buddhism
2) occult knowledge that arises from jhana
Re: Tantric Theravada?
No bro, my intention was to share what I notice when I read a book by prof gombrich, he use the term occult knowledge arises from meditation. In the nikaya, the term used think is direct knowledge. Occult has a negative meaning in some ways.Caodemarte wrote:If I was doing a free association test I would say "Waste of time." This is pretty much what every Buddhist monk has said when asked in my presence with one exception. That exception was an American Theravada monk in Thailand who said that it was kind of interesting to talk about, but not of importance.form wrote:What do u guys think of these expressions, the first thing that come to your mind.
1) occult Buddhism
2) occult knowledge that arises from jhana
- Dhammanando
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- Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Early British Theosophists, especially Annie Besant and A.P. Sinnett. The smell of mothballs and French polish in Christmas Humphreys' home in St. John's Wood. Dust-covered tomes by Blavatsky in the Reykjavík Lodge of the Icelandic Theosophical Society. Stuffy retired colonels and silly old spinsters nattering about Ascended Masters and how the One became the Two, and the Two became the Three...form wrote:What do u guys think of these expressions, the first thing that come to your mind.
1) occult Buddhism
Mid to late 19th century translations of Pali texts.form wrote:2) occult knowledge that arises from jhana
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Dhammanando wrote:Early British Theosophists, especially Annie Besant and A.P. Sinnett. The smell of mothballs and French polish in Christmas Humphreys' home in St. John's Wood. Dust-covered tomes by Blavatsky in the Reykjavík Lodge of the Icelandic Theosophical Society. Stuffy retired colonels and silly old spinsters nattering about Ascended Masters and how the One became the Two, and the Two became the Three...form wrote:What do u guys think of these expressions, the first thing that come to your mind.
1) occult Buddhism
Kim
Musings on Tantra and Mayahana (from: Tantric Theravada?)
Actually Tibetan Buddhist Tantric practices were imported to Tibet from India where they were learnt from Indian Buddhist Siddha. Except for terma, of course.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 amYes, with regard to Brahminism and Shamanism. But the Buddhist component is not early Buddhism, but rather the very late-stage Buddhism of India's monastic universities. Of all the Buddhist nations in Asia, the Tibetans are probably the least well-informed about early Buddhism, largely as a consequence of Atīśa's decree that the Āgama sūtras should not be translated into the Tibetan language.form wrote:Is it correct to say tibetan buddhism is a mixture of early Buddhism with braminism and Shamanism?
AND the Agama texts exist in the Tibetan Canon, they are in the Kangyur collection.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Very few of them.
- Dhammanando
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
- Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Oh? Are you referring to the ten Mahāsūtras and suchlike or do you mean that the canon contains complete Āgamas?
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Bhante, would you please give a reference?Dhammanando wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 am Atīśa's decree that the Āgama sūtras should not be translated into the Tibetan language.
- Dhammanando
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
- Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun
Re: Tantric Theravada?
It was stated in a post by Malcolm Smith on the old E-sangha, but I didn't keep a copy.Dmytro wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:51 pmBhante, would you please give a reference?Dhammanando wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 am Atīśa's decree that the Āgama sūtras should not be translated into the Tibetan language.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Kangyur.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:47 pmOh? Are you referring to the ten Mahāsūtras and suchlike or do you mean that the canon contains complete Āgamas?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
- Dhammanando
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
- Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun
Re: Tantric Theravada?
There is no mention in your link of even one Āgama. The sūtra sub-link in it consists mostly of Mahāyāna sutras, with the Āgamic texts being limited to the handful of mahāsūtras.Grigoris wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 3:45 pmKangyur.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:47 pmOh? Are you referring to the ten Mahāsūtras and suchlike or do you mean that the canon contains complete Āgamas?
http://read.84000.co/section/O1JC114941JC14668.html
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Tantric Theravada?
My dear Venerable, in the Mahayna the Sutra are the Agama!Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 5:14 pmThere is no mention in your link of even one Āgama. The sūtra sub-link in it consists mostly of Mahāyāna sutras, with the Āgamic texts being limited to the handful of mahāsūtras.Grigoris wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 3:45 pmKangyur.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 1:47 pmOh? Are you referring to the ten Mahāsūtras and suchlike or do you mean that the canon contains complete Āgamas?
http://read.84000.co/section/O1JC114941JC14668.html
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Why then does Lotus Sutra state the following:
adhimānīnna seveta vinaye cāgame sthitān|
arhantasaṁmatān bhikṣūn duḥśīlāṁścaiva varjayet||4||
One should avoid those arrogant, who follow the Vinaya and adhere to Agama,
Monks with dubious virtue who consider the Arahantship to be topmost.
Re: Tantric Theravada?
Don't know. You'll have to ask the Buddha that one.Dmytro wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 5:11 amWhy then does Lotus Sutra state the following:
adhimānīnna seveta vinaye cāgame sthitān|
arhantasaṁmatān bhikṣūn duḥśīlāṁścaiva varjayet||4||
One should avoid those arrogant, who follow the Vinaya and adhere to Agama,
Monks with dubious virtue who consider the Arahantship to be topmost.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.