Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

[Coëmgenu]

Thank you for proving my point.

What is this? Some kind of childish thing to say?

Only children say this sort of thing in a conversation. The Buddhavacana clearly indicates directed rebirth.

"Thank you for proving my point". Oh dear.

[Coëmgenu]

Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, maggo ayaṃ paṭipadā tatrupapattiyā saṃvattati.
This is the path and the practice that leads to rebirth there. (Ven Sujato translation)

Where?

Tassa te saṅkhārā ca vihārā ca evaṃ bhāvitā evaṃ bahulīkatā tatrupapattiyā saṃvattanti.
Those choices and meditations of theirs, developed and cultivated like this, lead to rebirth there. [i.e. wherever they want to go]

The sutta is very extensive, exhaustively listing various places one can attain birth in this way.

[alan]

Name the Sutta which says we can be reborn in a place or time or our choice.
Name the one which says it is possible to determine the rebirth place of others.

[Coëmgenu]

Name the Sutta which says we can be reborn in a place or time or our choice.

I literally just did. But I suppose I can copy and paste the information from above so that it's down here too.

Sankhārupapattisutta MN 120

[tellyontellyon]

I practice Tibetan Buddhism but I also like the teachings from the Theravada forest tradition. I find there is more similarity than you might realise. The skillful means can seem more elaborate at times in Tibetan Buddhism, but it is more a matter of style and emphasis. There has been ignorance on both sides.

I don't know if this is quite relevant, but this talk by Ajahn Amaro goes a little way in explaining the development of the Mahayana approach, from a Theravada point of view. He also shows how concepts that seem to belong in Mahayana are in Theravada too.

Between Arahant and Bodhisattva:
http://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-fij83-26912c1

I think you might need to download an app to hear the talk, otherwise you can probably find the same talk on the Amaravati website, there is a section of audio teachings. The talk was on 25th April 2017.

Edit: Here it is:
https://www.amaravati.org/audio/between ... dhisattva/

[Aloka]

.

There's a transcript of Ajahn Amaro's talk on the 'Lion's Roar' website.


https://www.lionsroar.com/between-arhat ... dhisattva/





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[Grigoris]

Aslo, I did not deny rebirth. But nowhere did the Buddha say he could determine past lives with anything other than basic needs. And nowhere did he say there is a way to find a specific rebirth.
You should look up the term "inferential error" before accusing me.

In all the Sutta on Kamma the Buddha teaches which actions lead to which rebirths. If you couple this with the role that habit plays in rebirth and the role of the rebirth linking consciousness plus the notion that a stream-enterer has at most seven lifetimes before they achieve Nibanna, well... I think there is ample evidence in the Sutta and Abhidhamma for our ability to influence our next incarnation.

[ToVincent]

Sankhārupapattisutta MN 120

MN 120 Saïkhàruppatti-sutta
The Saïkhàruppatti-sutta, the “discourse on re-arising [in a particular way by means
of an] aspiration”, describes how an aspiration can influence the mode of one's rebirth.
A discourse in the Madhyama-àgama takes up the same topic, although its mode of presentation is different to such an extent that these two discourses do not seem to be
“parallels” properly speaking.

The treatment given in these two discourses differs not only in regard to the
range of rebirth modes taken into account, but also about the principle responsible for
such rebirth. While the Madhyama-āgama discourse relates rebirth in a particular realm
to having developed the corresponding meditative attainment, the Majjhima-nikāya
version’s exposition centres on the idea of being reborn through the power of an aspiration, based on a set of qualities that do not mention the development of concentration.

Analayo

____

And NO, Lamaism is not Buddhism. And Tibetans are not such a "nice peaceful" oppressed people. Read the history of both (shamanic tantric lamaism, and the ruthless episodes of Tibetan history).
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[ToVincent]

Tibetan "buddhism" is just a somewhat "buddhism", perverted with Bon.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
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[Grigoris]

Tibetan "buddhism" is just a somewhat "buddhism", perverted with Bon.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
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Ummmmm... That is not what the article says.

BTW,have you ever traveled to countries where Theravada is the official religion? Did you notice any syncretism going on there? Just a little?

[ToVincent]

Tibetan "buddhism" is just a somewhat "Buddhist", perverted with Bon.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
.
..

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Ummmmm... That is not what the article says.

The article does not say so; but Buddha does:
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"It is because of this, seeing the danger of such super-powers (magic, miracles...), I dislike, reject and despise them" .
DN 11
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[Grigoris]

Tibetan "buddhism" is just a somewhat "Buddhist", perverted with Bon.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
.
..

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Ummmmm... That is not what the article says.

The article does not say so; but Buddha does:
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"It is because of this, seeing the danger of such super-powers (magic, miracles...), I dislike, reject and despise them" .
DN 11
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Super powers? What you are talking about?

First of all you have to clarify if you are referring to pre-Buddhist or post-Buddhist Bon. There are serious differences between the two.

Then you have to answer the question: What do you call the Iddhividha-niddesa and the Abhinna-niddesa? Since that is what Vajrayana Buddhists talk about when they refer to Siddhi.

But before that you have to understand that Bon was only recently recognised as a Buddhist tradition in Tibet. Up until the current Dalai Lama Bon was not considered Buddhism. Tibetan kings of old actively (and violently, many times) suppressed Bon practice in Tibet.

[ToVincent]

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First of all you have to clarify if you are referring to pre-Buddhist or post-Buddhist Bon. There are serious differences between the two.


But before that you have to understand that Bon was only recently recognised as a Buddhist tradition in Tibet. Up until the current Dalai Lama Bon was not considered Buddhism. Tibetan kings of old actively (and violently, many times) suppressed Bon practice in Tibet.

Well, read again the article of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I think they are pretty clear on the matter.

Now, dear, you are absolutely free to believe that lamaism esoteric and magic Bon, is "buddhism".
That is your karma.
We are still living in a quite free world, I suppose.
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[mikenz66]

Members,

Please keep in mind Terms of Service 2d:

d. Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions - including psychoanalyzing other members, and predictions or threats of kammic retribution
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2

Mike

[ToVincent]

What "traditions" could probably mean ?
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Buddha was against schisms.
So what "tradition" could probably mean ?
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The all purpose of modern studies on Buddhism, is to find the common trunk to these schismatic traditions. That is to say, to extract the common parallels between the different EARLY schools ; while screening out anything that has not been said by the Buddha or his close disciples.

Period.
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That's Buddhism.
The rest is not.
Period.
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