So I will post here. Coud moderators please leave this in classical theravda- last time I was on dhammawheel they moved a topic I was involved in that was in this section.
This is a review of the book 'Innovative Buddhist Women - Swimming against the Stream', (2000), Karma Lekshe Tsomo (Ed), Curzon Press, Richmond, UK. Paperback. Reviewed by Y.K. Yau
http://home.iprimus.com.au/zordon/Publi ... icles/Book" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;% 20review.htm
__________________"In her paper ` Inaccuracies in Buddhist Women's History', Bhikkuni Kusuma turns an age-old misreading of the dual ordination of women in the Buddhist canon on its head. Bhikkuni Kusuma, a Pali scholar who received a Ph.D for her research on Bhikkuni Vinaya (Buddhist Nun monastic discipline) could find no canonical evidence to suggest that a nun's ordination is only valid if it is witnessed by both orders, the order of monks and the order of nuns. The truth is that it will suffice for the order of monks to ordain a nun. Neither could Bhikkuni Kusuma find any evidence to suggest that the lifespan of the Buddha's dispensation will be shortened on account of women's admission to the order. In fact, she found evidence to the contrary in the Commentary of Buddhaghosa, a 5th century Buddhist monk. She also argues that the eight special rules (garudhammas) that Mahapajapati Gotami had accepted on her own behalf to gain admission to the order did not apply to other nuns. This is because the Buddha had ordained his own aunt and stepmother when she was just a laywoman. It was a quirk of history that caused controversy to rage for 10 centuries. If the eight special rules were to apply to other nuns, it would have meant nuns' subservience (not deference), to monks. And that would be very contrary to the Buddha's egalitarianism."
This sutta is in the Anguttara Nikàya. Note that Mahapajapati was given higher ordination directly by the Buddha there and then, and that the sutta also mentions those (other woman) who will be preparing for higher ordination: "A trainee bhikkhuni should spend two rains observing the six precepts and be accomplished for the higher ordination, in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis."
QUOTE
Reagrding the comment that Neither could Bhikkuni Kusuma find any evidence to suggest that the lifespan of the Buddha's dispensation will be shortened on account of women's admission to the order[/b]Gotamãvaggo- Gotamisuttaü- To Gotàmi.
"""Ananda, if Mahapajapati Gotami accepts these eight strong rules, that will be her higher ordination: ßA bhikkhuni with one hundred rains should worship, attend willingly, revere with clasped hands and exchange friendly greetings with a bhikkhu who has just attained higher ordination. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should not observe the rains in a monastery where there are no bhikkhus. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. Every fortnight the bhikkhuni should approach the Community of bhikkhus to beg for two things. To know the day of recital of the full moon observances for confession and for advice. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should emerge from the rains observances, by seeing or hearing or clearing suspicions in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni guilty of transgressing the strong rules should atone it, in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A trainee bhikkhuni should spend two rains observing the six precepts and be accomplished for the higher ordination, in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should not abuse a bhikkhu for any reason. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. From today the words of the bhikkhunis are obstructed to the bhikkhus. The words of the bhikkhus are not obstructed to the bhikkhunis This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. Ananda, if Mahapajapati Gotami accepts these eight strong rules, that will be her higher ordination:" Venerable Ananda, learning these eight strong rules in the presence of The Blessed One approached Mahapajapati Gotami and said: ßGotami, if you accept these eight strong rules, that will be your higher ordination: ßA bhikkhuni with one hundred rains should worship, attend willingly, revere with clasped hands and exchange friendly greetings with a bhikkhu who has just attained higher ordination. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should not observe the rains in a monastery where there are no bhikkhus. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. Every fortnight the bhikkhuni should approach the Community of bhikkhus to beg for two things. To know the day of recital of the full moon observances for confession and for advice. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should emerge from the rains observances, by seeing or hearing or clearing suspicions in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni guilty of transgressing the strong rules should atone it, in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A trainee bhikkhuni should spend two rains observing the six precepts and be accomplished for the higher ordination, in the presence of both Communities, bhikkhus and bhikkhunis. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. A bhikkhuni should not abuse a bhikkhu for any reason. This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. From today the words of the bhikkhunis are obstructed to the bhikkhus. The words of the bhikkhus are not obstructed to the bhikkhunis This rule should be honoured, revered, esteemed and should not be thrown out until life lasts. Gotami if you accept these eight strong rules, that same will be your higher ordination:"ß Venerable sir, Ananda, just as a young man, woman, or child who has washed his head was to receive a garland of flowers of blue lotuses, jasmines or a very attractive garland of flowers would accept it, with both hands and would place it on his head. In that same manner I accept the eight strong rules, not to throw out until life lasts. Then venerable Ananda approached The Blessed One, worshipped, sat on a side and said: Venerable sir, Mahapajapati Gotami has accepted the eight strong rules, not to throw out until life lasts." ßAnanda, if women did not obtain the going forth from the household as homeless, in the dispensation of the Thus Gone One, the dispensation would have lasted longer a thousand years Ananda, as women have obtined the going forth from the household to become homeless, it will not last long, the good Teaching will last only five hundred years Ananda, just as families which have more women and few men are attacked by robbers and cheaters in the same manner in a dispensation in which there is the going forth for women, the holy life does not last long Ananda, just as in an accomplished rice field, there falls an illness named white seeds and it does not last long. In the same manner in a dispensation in which there is the going forth for women, the holy life does not last long. Ananda, just as in an accomplished cane field, there comes an illness named turning red and it does not last long. In the same manner in a dispensation in which there is the going forth for women, the holy life does not last long. Ananda, just as a man was to build an embankment as a future protection for a huge reservoir, so that water would not reach over the boundary these eight strong rules are declared to the bhikkhunis not to be thrown out until life lasts, as future protection.""___http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-
Nikaya/Anguttara5/8-atthakanipata/006-gotamivaggo-e.htm
this is patently false.
http://www.metta.lk/mirror/www.accessto ... rn/thaniss
aro/bmc2/ch23.html
""But, Ananda, if women had not obtained the Going-forth from the home life into homelessness in the Tathagata's doctrine and discipline, the holy life would have lasted long, the true Dhamma would have lasted 1,000 years. But now that they have gotten to go forth...this holy life will not last long, the true Dhamma will last 500 years. Just as a clan in which there are many women and few men is easily plundered by robbers and bandits, in the same way, in whatever doctrine and discipline women get to go forth, the holy life does not last long..""
The commentary explains that the sasana will last longer because the Buddha laid down the eight grave rules for Bhikkhuni, and because of the reciting of the Tipitaka at the first council. Thus it is partly because of holding to the eight grave rules that the sasana that sasana still exists.