mettā in commentarial tradition (refutation)

[binocular]

mettā is self-abnegating

Martyrdom is for the unenlightened.

[binocular]

conceiving oneself in mettā is counter to the buddha's instructions, plain as day

So, just to be clear: When monastics chant "May I be happy" or "May I abide in wellbeing", they are acting counter to the Buddha's instructions?

[Dhammarakkhito]

yes

[binocular]

yes

Then you're a (proto)Mahayani.

[Virgo]

yes

Is metta unwholesome?

Kevin

[cappuccino]

why exclude the primary person from metta?

a person you must deal with daily

the relationship that matters most

[robertk]

conceiving oneself in mettā is counter to the buddha's instructions, plain as day

So, just to be clear: When monastics chant "May I be happy" or "May I abide in wellbeing", they are acting counter to the Buddha's instructions?

Is that chant a translation taken from a pali sutta or commentary?

[mikenz66]

8. First of all it should be developed only towards oneself, doing it repeatedly
thus: “May I be happy and free from suffering” or “May I keep myself free from
enmity, affliction and anxiety and live happily.”

Mike

[mikenz66]

Here's some more, relevant to the criticisms given in the OP:

9. If that is so, does it not conflict with what is said in the texts? For there is no
mention of any development of it towards oneself in what is said in the Vibhaòga:
“And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart filled
with loving-kindness? Just as he would feel loving-kindness on seeing a dearly
loved person, so he pervades all beings with loving-kindness” (Vibh 272); and
in what is said in the Paþisambhidá: “In what five ways is the mind-deliverance
of loving-kindness [practiced] with unspecified pervasion? May all beings be
free from enmity, affliction and anxiety and live happily. May all breathing things
[297] ... all who are born ... all persons ... all those who have a personality be
free from enmity, affliction and anxiety and live happily” (Paþis II 130); and in
what is said in the Mettá Sutta: “In joy and safety may all beings be joyful at
heart” (Sn 145). [Does it not conflict with those texts?]

10. It does not conflict. Why not? Because that refers to absorption. But this
[initial development towards oneself] refers to [making oneself] an example. For
even if he developed loving-kindness for a hundred or a thousand years in this
way, “I am happy” and so on, absorption would never arise. But if he develops it
in this way: “I am happy. Just as I want to be happy and dread pain, as I want to
live and not to die, so do other beings, too,” making himself the example, then
desire for other beings’ welfare and happiness arises in him. And this method is
indicated by the Blessed One’s saying:

I visited all quarters with my mind
Nor found I any dearer than myself;
Self is likewise to every other dear;
Who loves himself will never harm another (S I 75; Ud 47).

11. So he should first, as example, pervade himself with loving-kindness. Next
after that, in order to proceed easily, he can recollect such gifts, 2 kind words, etc.,
as inspire love and endearment, such virtue, learning, etc., as inspire respect
and reverence met with in a teacher or his equivalent or a preceptor or his
equivalent, developing loving-kindness towards him in the way beginning, “May
this good man be happy and free from suffering.” With such a person, of course,
he attains absorption.

12. But if this bhikkhu does not rest content with just that much and wants to
break down the barriers, he should next, after that, develop loving-kindness
towards a very dearly loved friend, then towards a neutral person as a very
dearly loved friend, then towards a hostile person as neutral. And while he does
so, he should make his mind malleable and wieldy in each instance before
passing on to the next.
...

Mike

[mikenz66]

But I see Robert already posted most of the above...


Mike

[Dhammarakkhito]

robert and mike, i just have not seen the verse 'i visited all quarters...' translated like that, i find it suspicious. note that in the simile of the bamboo acrobat, shared earlier, one looks after others by mettā but looks after oneself by satipaṭṭhāna

Looking after oneself, one looks after others.
Looking after others, one looks after oneself.

And how does one look after others by looking after oneself?
By practicing (mindfulness), by developing (it), by doing (it) a lot.
And how does one look after oneself by looking after others?
By patience, by non-harming, by loving kindness, by caring (for others).
(Thus) looking after oneself, one looks after others;
and looking after others, one looks after oneself.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html

the verse would have to say looking after oneself by looking after oneself if one were called to cultivate 'self-mettā', which is fairly nonsensical

[mikenz66]

“Having explored every quarter with the mind,
one finds no-one dearer than oneself.
Likewise for others, each holds themselves dear.
So one who loves themselves would not harm others.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn3.8/en/sujato

Searching all directions
with your awareness,
you find no one dearer
than yourself.
In the same way, others
are thickly dear to themselves.
So you shouldn’t hurt others
if you love yourself.
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Ud/ud5_1.html

I visited all quarters with my mind
Nor found I any dearer than myself;
Self is likewise to every other dear;
Who loves himself will never harm another
[Nanamoli's Visuddhimagga translation, above.]

The last line of each translation is consistent.


Mike

[mikenz66]

the verse would have to say looking after oneself by looking after oneself if one were called to cultivate 'self-mettā', which is fairly nonsensical

I don't follow the logic here. Just because in one sutta there is an encouragement to do some particular thing, doesn't mean that doing some other thing is wrong. In fact, different suttas often recommend different actions, presumably tailored to the audience.


Mike

[Dhammarakkhito]

"Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge.

"And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge?

"When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#island

the buddha simply doesn't teach self-mettā, and while that alone doesn't preclude the practice, it should be vigorously scrutinized

[mikenz66]

Well, as I said, different suttas say apparently different things:

“Not so, Ānanda! Not so, Ānanda! This is the entire holy life, Ānanda, that is, good friendship, good companionship, good comradeship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path.
https://suttacentral.net/sn45.2

So should you be an Island, or cultivate good friedship?


Mike