How to address wrong view?

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Samana Johann 1
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How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:53 am

Dedicated toward the Sangha of the Buddha and his good following discipes, with graditude toward my person parents, all the many admirable friend on a long journey and espcecially toward my persons first strong nissaya, mental preceptor, in this very fading existence, also for the generosity to look through this work, Bhante Nyanadassana.

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The English version is still not improved, but might give those able to receive nevertheless some good clarification: How to address wrong view?

As for the improved version, if having access to germa language, or wishing to make a better share: Wie entgegnet man Falscher Ansicht?

May all beings have a share of the merits, rejoice till highest fruits and may the Devas touch them, those who did not get in touch yet.

Metta & mudita
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by binocular » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:02 pm

It seems that in a forum like this, with almost exclusively lay people, attempting to correct another person's wrong view would be like the blind leading the blind.
A forum like this doesn't seem to be conducive to any definitive, decisive Buddhist practice.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:39 pm

how can everyone here be blind when the world is such

and here everyone sees more than the world

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by binocular » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:42 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:39 pm
and here everyone sees more than the world
Are you sure about that?

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:58 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:42 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:39 pm
and here everyone sees more than the world
Are you sure about that?
any who knows the teaching

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by DNS » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:44 pm

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite!
Jesus
Matthew 7:1–5 (NKJV) (Also Luke 6:37–42)

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Hiheyhello » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:10 am

Admin, please deactivate my account. TIA
Last edited by Hiheyhello on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 am

DNS wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite!
Jesus
Matthew 7:1–5 (NKJV) (Also Luke 6:37–42)
It's just that:

1. The talk is under the Tripple Gems
2. The Tripple Gems do not advocate Jesus
3. It's o.k. if not having taken refuge, to act as a person of (former) other religion, not seeking for acceptance.

As for the Buddhas and Theras advices: Mv I 25: Aññatitthiyapubbakathā — The Discussion of Those Previously a Member of Another Religion, to understand.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:24 am

Hiheyhello wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:10 am
How to admonish another skillfully

"O bhikkhus, a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another should do so after investigating five conditions in himself and after establishing five other conditions in himself. What are the five conditions which he should investigate in himself?

[1] "Am I one who practices purity in bodily action, flawless and untainted...?

[2] "Am I one who practices purity in speech, flawless and untainted...?

[3] "Is the heart of goodwill, free from malice, established in me towards fellow-farers in the holy life...?

[4] "Am I or am I not one who has heard much, who bears in mind what he has heard, who stores up what he has heard? Those teachings which are good alike in their beginning, middle, and ending, proclaiming perfectly the spirit and the letter of the utterly purified holy life — have such teachings been much heard by me, borne in mind, practiced in speech, pondered in the heart and rightly penetrated by insight...?

[5] "Are the Patimokkhas [rules of conduct for monks and nuns] in full thoroughly learned by heart, well-analyzed with thorough knowledge of their meanings, clearly divided sutta by sutta and known in minute detail by me...?

"These five conditions must be investigated in himself.

"And what other five conditions must be established in himself?

[1] "Do I speak at the right time, or not?

[2] "Do I speak of facts, or not?

[3] "Do I speak gently or harshly?

[4] "Do I speak profitable words or not?

[5] "Do I speak with a kindly heart, or inwardly malicious?

"O bhikkhus, these five conditions are to be investigated in himself and the latter five established in himself by a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another."

— AN V (From The Patimokkha, Ñanamoli Thera, trans.)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... index.html
Sadhu!

Its worthy to remark that this, how ever, counts for those living independent of each other. As for in a relation, dependency, it's the duty to "If a viewpoint[10] arises in the teacher/pupil, the pupil/teacher should pry it away or get someone else to pry it away or one should give him a Dhamma talk." http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipit ... em_en.html

In this case, the OP is given in independency, simply out of compassion.

Since my skills are limited, is up to you to approach the Sangha, confess, ask for pardon, take refuge and ask for the sharing of merits, so that things will go proper for your community here, and in duty toward your leader, you dependency.
Last edited by Samana Johann 1 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by DNS » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am

"If he recites many teachings, but — heedless man — doesn't do what they say, like a cowherd counting the cattle of others, he has no share in the contemplative life. If he recites next to nothing but follows the Dharma in line with the Dharma; abandoning passion, aversion, delusion; alert, his mind well-released, not clinging either here or hereafter: he has his share in the contemplative life."


Dhammapada 19-20
"As a bee — without harming the blossom, its color, its fragrance — takes its nectar & flies away: so should the sage go through a village."
Dhammapada 49
Let none find fault with others; let none see the omissions and commissions of others. But let one see one’s own acts, done and undone.
Dhammapada 50

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:46 am

DNS wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am
"If he recites many teachings, but — heedless man — doesn't do what they say, like a cowherd counting the cattle of others, he has no share in the contemplative life. If he recites next to nothing but follows the Dharma in line with the Dharma; abandoning passion, aversion, delusion; alert, his mind well-released, not clinging either here or hereafter: he has his share in the contemplative life."


Dhammapada 19-20
"As a bee — without harming the blossom, its color, its fragrance — takes its nectar & flies away: so should the sage go through a village."
Dhammapada 49
Let none find fault with others; let none see the omissions and commissions of others. But let one see one’s own acts, done and undone.
Dhammapada 50
A fool, he who demands praise and rejects blame...
http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.06.than_en.html wrote:Regard him as one who
points out
treasure,
the wise one who
seeing your faults
rebukes you.
Stay with this sort of sage.
For the one who stays
with a sage of this sort,
things get better,
not worse.

Let him admonish, instruct,
deflect you
away from poor manners.
To the good, he's endearing;
to the bad, he's not.
Like the moon.

Maybe take A Good Dose of Dhamma, young son of Brahman

Or get taught by a wise Upasika on basics:
http://www.zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/thai/kee/condensed_en.html wrote:There are lots of people who are ashamed to talk about their own defilements but who feel no shame at talking about the defilements of others. Those who are willing to report their own diseases — their own defilements — in a straightforward manner are few and far between. As a result, the disease of defilement is hushed up and kept secret, so that we don't realize how serious and widespread it is. We all suffer from it, and yet no one is open about it. No one is really interested in diagnosing his or her own defilements...

Say, for instance, that we hear a person criticizing someone else. We can listen and not get upset. But say that the thought occurs to us, "She's actually criticizing me." As soon as we conjure up this "me," we're immediately angry and displeased. If we concoct very much of this "me," we can get very upset. Just this fact alone should enable us to observe that as soon as our "self" gets involved, we suffer immediately. This is how it happens. If no sense of self comes out to get involved, we can remain calm and indifferent. When they criticize other people, we can stay indifferent; but as soon as we conclude that they're criticizing us, our "self" appears and immediately gets involved — and we immediately burn with defilement. Why?...
Last edited by Samana Johann 1 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Hiheyhello » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:48 am

Admin, please deactivate my account. TIA
Last edited by Hiheyhello on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:00 am

Hiheyhello wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:48 am
"Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards'; 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'

"Why should you not do this? Such talk, monks, is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or to Nibbana. When you have discussions, monks, you should discuss Suffering, the Arising of Suffering, its Cessation, and the Path that leads to its Cessation. Why is that? Because such talk is related to the goal... it conduces to disenchantment... to Nibbana. This is the task you must accomplish."

— SN 56.9

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
Sadhu!

Let my person ask if it was out of compassion or as selfdefense, having quoted it? Maybe Nyom likes to give a present by 1. Reflect good and share its insights.

By the way, it might be not wrong that the OP was only less to zero investigated, by all participate, not to speak in a manner "neither approving nor rejecting" to get even an idea of what the talk is about, and its not supposed at gaining prais at all.

So maybe the home-task first beore thinking "I am smarter" as the head cold have been cut of already without being even aware of it.

And be sure, you are neither convetional nor ideal a monk and independent, but a child possible adressed by "your" father(s).
Last edited by Samana Johann 1 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:06 am

DNS wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Judge not, that you be not judged.
:heart:
Therefore, Ānanda, you should not be a hasty critic of people, should not lightly pass judgement on people. He who passes judgement on people harms himself. I alone, Ānanda, or one like me, can judge people.

https://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh208_Nyanap ... udgeOthers
https://suttacentral.net/an6.44/en/sujato

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Hiheyhello » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:37 am

:thanks:
Last edited by Hiheyhello on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:29 am

Mudita as far as Nyom had joy with his/her teacher. Karuna as far as he could not transport of what is given in the very first Suttas of the first and secound Nikaya, starting with DN 1.
Obviously in the case of a dependent child relation, one may need to admonish for safety reasons or to teach right view/behavior. Otherwise, I think that one should be very careful when criticizing or correcting another.
And Sadhu: Abhaya Sutta, here also a sample that even such can and is missused:
Right Speech is Not Always Gentle (by Sallie B. King) - about justifying wrongs

The kind Nyom appear, aproaches... shows clear that your teacher didn't teach you proper, and if he is blamed incorrect, it's because of the behaviour of his disciples that the is rightly rebuked here.

And it's easy to assume that Nyom had changed form an improper assambly around late Goenka, to a western Ajahn Chah "disciple". Or another corrupter of families if you have been really taught such. Of course it's neither proper to accept as Bhikkhu lay people as disciples, living in dependency of each other, not is it encouraged toward Bhikkhus to rebuke lay followers. Other than in the approach of other sects, from time to time.

How ever, it's good, like the elder lay disciple did and still do, to take Vinaya as a sample for they relations, inwardly and toward the Sangha. So lets contionue on this level here.

As for clear word of how the Buddha reacted to such a community dwelling like sheeps:
http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/vin/mv/mv04/mv.04.01.khem_en.html wrote:Then the Blessed One addressed the monks, “These worthless men, having spent the Rains [dwelling together in dependency of each other, sharing food...] uncomfortably, claim to have spent the Rains comfortably.

“Having spent the Rains in cattle-like affiliation, these worthless men claim to have spent the Rains comfortably.

“Having spent the Rains in sheep-like affiliation, these worthless men claim to have spent the Rains comfortably.

“Having spent the Rains in heedless-affiliation, these worthless men claim to have spent the Rains comfortably.

“How can these worthless men undertake a vow of dumb silence, the undertaking of sectarians?

(Mv.IV.1.13) “Monks, this neither inspires faith in the faithless …”
As for the cases where a community have fallen into transgression (lets say here, wrong view and Sanghadisesa 13)
http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/vin/mv/mv04/mv.04.08.khem_en.html wrote:Now on that occasion, the entire Saṅgha in a certain residence had fallen into an offense common to one another on the day of the Invitation. Then the thought occurred to them, “It has been laid down by the Blessed One that an offense common to one another should not be confessed; (the confession of) an offense common to one another should not be received. But this entire Saṅgha has fallen into a common offense. What should we do?”

They reported the matter to the Blessed One.

“Monks, there is the case where the entire Saṅgha in a certain residence has fallen into an offense common to one another on the day of the Invitation.

“Monks, one monk should be sent by the monks to a neighboring residence immediately, (saying,) ‘Go, friend. Make amends for that offense and come back. We will make amends for the offense in your presence.’

“If this can be managed, well and good. If not, then an experienced and competent monk should inform the Saṅgha:

“‘Venerable sirs, may the Saṅgha listen to me. This entire Saṅgha has fallen into an offense common to one another. When it sees another monk — pure, without (that) offense — then it will make amends for that offense in his presence.’ Once that has been said, he/they should invite.[2]

Not from that cause alone should an obstruction to the Uposatha be made.”

“Monks, there is the case where the entire Saṅgha in a certain residence is doubtful about an offense common to one another on the day of the Invitation.

“An experienced and competent monk should inform the Saṅgha:

“‘Venerable sirs, may the Saṅgha listen to me. This entire Saṅgha is doubtful about an offense common to one another. When it becomes free from doubt, then it will make amends for that offense.’ Once that has been said, he/they should invite.

“Not from that cause alone should an obstruction to the Uposatha be made.”
It's worthy to study this in detail, the Khandhaka here and Mahavagga as a whole in regard of community issues, refuge and teacher/student relations.

Again, you should regard your self here as either "those previous from other religions", "corrupted", or "without having taken refuge/or broken".

As for dwelling with alajji (people not shy in doing misdeeds), like asked by A Bhikkhu.

It's a fault to dwell in dependency with shameless people. For householders or people general, if accociating, not having reached the path, it's just a matter of time that you will adopt it. Like may of you outside here behaviour well but in here, "thought inofficial" like worsest idiots. That comes from not letting go of desire of being part on feeding.

In regard of Vinaya, if dwelling indepentend, not using community advantages, or eating together, for a while or because bound (such as to care about ones sich preceptor, or being sick, no problem.

In the case not aware, no problem.

In the case anxiety or fear, still not taking actions or leave, a fault.

In the case of deliberately dwelling, incinerated for Shism at least, a grave fault.

As for Sanghadisesa 13 today, its hard to possible find a Sangha of 20 Bhikkhus not having fallen into offence, if even one still exists. So especially Bhikkhus should take care of such and usually, if serious in Vinaya, there will be less who dwell just for 1 vassa on a place.

As for you lay people community, be sure that it is not possible for a lajji Bhikkhu to apprach here as it is not even wished and not even basic conditions are given, will be even avoided so that it will not happen.

Aware or not, there are (nearly) no places in this realm where a conductive parisa dwells. Serious Bhikkhus have disappeared and inserious, shameless are only found on google, facebook... on the bog marked places.

Those things should be considered, and there is a reason why most of you run around here in disguise. But be sure, a community or a Bhikkhu of the Disciples of the Buddha knows and sees anyway.

So it's good to confess, ask for pardon, take/ask for refuge and invite to rejoice in your merits, ask for the share of merits from good monks.

Yet you will not easy find. And if, having returned here, and encorage others, will not work...

Again, the Brahmans son David would have the merits to establish a monastery and a place for a parisa to come together, but since he is not only strong corruped by corrupt monks and foolish pride, adicted to chess and politics, holding weapons, disrespectless forward the tripple Gems, you all here dwell under such. The list of respectlessness is very long including the "thieving" for trade in Gems.

And it's not said that you don't fullfill your duties and ignore your mass on debts you have accumulated here toward him, but to seek out of proper ways, like a child toward the father, to possible bend him into right direction.Not at all in a way my person does here, you are not in the position, have not the serious liberality but you live in dependency and feed on the relation. You are in debt.

There is no problem to "break a promis" if out of higher reason, of cause.

There are also two duties: a student, not seeking for pardon, is an offence.
A teacher not accepting a pardon an offense.

Look at MVI at the end. Worthy to study and practice, addopted also for lay people like done today, often only citing stranger text in pali when again meeting the monks (as lay disciples, as you think you are...)

Since you hardly figure out defilements and know you own mind, even if 50 years practice and still behave like childs, it's good to consider to possible try the ways of the elders, or simply follow in all regards of you paticulat relations the lay mens discipline. Not in a demanting position, but in a dutie position. What the conterpart in each relation does, thats his merit or demerit.

Fullfilling you duties e.g. precepts, is at fist place ones own protection.

As for all your kind of argumentations here, you are maybe not aware that most of you use one of two patterns: either victim blaming or to call for the conceit of the group by "we", since you usually debate here for gain of praise for wordly objectives and not for release.
http://www.zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.04.than_en.html wrote:Namo...

Many devas and human beings
give thought to protection,
desiring well-being.
Tell, then, the highest protection.
The Buddha:
Not consorting with fools,
consorting with the wise,
paying homage to those worthy of homage:
This is the highest protection.

Living in a civilized land,
having made merit in the past,
directing oneself rightly:
This is the highest protection.

Broad knowledge, skill,
well-mastered discipline,
well-spoken words:
This is the highest protection.

Support for one's parents,
assistance to one's wife and children,
consistency in one's work:
This is the highest protection.

Giving, living in rectitude,
assistance to one's relatives,
deeds that are blameless:
This is the highest protection.

Avoiding, abstaining from evil;
refraining from intoxicants,
being heedful of the qualities of the mind:
This is the highest protection.

Respect, humility,
contentment, gratitude,
hearing the Dhamma on timely occasions:
This is the highest protection.

Patience, compliance,
seeing contemplatives,
discussing the Dhamma on timely occasions:
This is the highest protection.

Austerity, celibacy,
seeing the Noble Truths,
realizing Unbinding:
This is the highest protection.

A mind that, when touched
by the ways of the world,
is unshaken, sorrowless, dustless, at rest:
This is the highest protection.

Everywhere undefeated
when acting in this way,
people go everywhere in well-being:
This is their highest protection.
If realicing how actually less blessed you are, seek of getting protected by giving proper upanissayapaccayena (strong condition causes), e.g. forget your illusions about meditation and work hard on the basics: they are hard, but the base. It's not possible to build a tower based on mud.

And since there is actually no real base to teach those involved in improper ways anything, my person will leave now, and stop here. Duties are done and it's up to you if you like to spend your times for a good or bad, and with whom. You are in the "sad" position to be neither bound (ordained in Buddhas relition) nor really independent.

And since such "householder-equanimity" and teaching such, e.g. post-modernism is the most dangerous cutting off for a long long time, the Buddha, when normally not that eager, used all his possibilities to remove that such can stay or arise. Yet, we ate at the end of his teaching... Hurry up and seek for those possible also proper to practice the basics.

You have to leave fools behind and certain desire for sensual pleasure and becoming to be able to do so. When you seek for Mara and Devadatta, you gain it. Nobody else can bring you out of the hole you have fallen into. How: the ways have been given and can be asked in addition if something is not clear, probably not here, not based on thoughts of equal, for there is no way to escape on this base but just over and out.

And, it's not wrong to warn without unskillful fear, aversion, greed, illusion:

Worthy to read: in regard of issa: http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,402. ... tml#msg944

And about the judge, the rabbit: Mahā Īsī Proh Khlā (The Great Hermit Saves the Tiger’s Life) http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,370. ... tml#msg820 (worthy to tell, when remebering, Brahman son David being a Tiger, possoble now waked up...)

An Analysis of the Trickster Archetype as Represented by the Rabbit Character in Khmer Folktales http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,371.0.html (not only of how the rabbit became a judge, a smarty a wise, but also of the good and bad use of Dhamma


Mudita with those able to rejoice and may the Devas inform those not having been touched yet, and metta, fellows on the path and nyeat nyom.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Hiheyhello » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Last edited by Hiheyhello on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by binocular » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:45 pm

DNS wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite!
Jesus
Matthew 7:1–5 (NKJV) (Also Luke 6:37–42)
Focusing on the issue of finding fault in others (while not seeing one's own) only detracts from the issue at hand.

This topic of how, and if at all, to address (supposed) wrong view in other people keeps coming up in this forum over and over again. I've yet to see a resolution. There apparently exists a system of admonition between monks, and another system between teachers and their lay students.
However, in a forum setting like this, how should this be addressed?

The idea "I'm full of faults myself, so I have no business admonishing others" may seem pious and humble, but I think it misses the point. Because if there is such a thing as Right View, it should be possible to identify it and clearly, objectively distinguish it from wrong views; and it's not clear why doing so should be inappropriate.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by Hiheyhello » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:07 pm

:redherring:
Last edited by Hiheyhello on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to address wrong view?

Post by DNS » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:28 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:45 pm
This topic of how, and if at all, to address (supposed) wrong view in other people keeps coming up in this forum over and over again. I've yet to see a resolution. There apparently exists a system of admonition between monks, and another system between teachers and their lay students.
However, in a forum setting like this, how should this be addressed?

The idea "I'm full of faults myself, so I have no business admonishing others" may seem pious and humble, but I think it misses the point. Because if there is such a thing as Right View, it should be possible to identify it and clearly, objectively distinguish it from wrong views; and it's not clear why doing so should be inappropriate.
Yes, I agree and there are clear examples of people expressing wrong views, but that doesn't mean one should post exclusively in a belittling manner every time someone posts and constantly admonishing other posters. Then it just makes the person look arrogant (as if they know all the answers) and gives appearance of passive-aggressive attacks.

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