Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
chownah
Posts: 7569
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by chownah » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:09 am

JeffR wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:39 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:25 am

There is a town in minnesota, united states of america named "sleepy eye, minnesota, united states of america. Its name is taken from lakota....do you know the lakota for "sleepy eye"?
chownah
I know of 'Sleepy Eye', it is a very small town and I have been there. I haven't heard before that Sleepy Eye was taken from Lakota and, I'm sorry to say, I don't know the Lakota. It is located in a heavily German part of Minnesota, just West of New Ulm.

I once came across an Anishanabe - English dictionary in a book store; now I'm wondering if there is a Lakota - English one I can check out from the library (I doubt anyone would have put it online).

Edit Add: There is an English - Lakota dictionary online!
https://glosbe.com/en/lkt
Sleepy Eye = ištíŋmA ištá
I know this is off topic but you seem interested in lakota's representation in place names in your locality so I thought this one might interest you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtakhaba
chownah

User avatar
JeffR
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 am
Location: Minnesota, Lakota Nation (Occupier)

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by JeffR » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am

Thanks Chownah. Not really off topic as this discussion does help explain to NoMind why Americans don't announce which country we're from (do we really know?).

I am very interested in the heritage of Minnesota. I grew up on the homestead that my ancesters lived on since it was stolen from the Lakota. My Mom has told me stories her grandma told her of when she (great-grandma) was a little girl (my Mom's ancestral homestead is still in the family, I grew up on my Dad's ancestral homestead which Mom sold off 15-20 years ago); some of those stories involved the aftermath of the Dakota war. I do not like the attrocities that were committed against the native peoples so that my European ancesters could gain farmland. Even so, I'm still proud of the tenacity of my prairie pioneer ancestors and the heritage brought over from central Europe. I'm also interested in the culture that this nation truly belongs to; both can co-exist as well as blend together.

The names of cities and landmarks here where I live bare stories of both pasts. It's nice to study them and learn about the past and how it has conditioned the present.
Last edited by JeffR on Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

User avatar
JeffR
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 am
Location: Minnesota, Lakota Nation (Occupier)

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by JeffR » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:55 am

chownah wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:09 am

I know this is off topic but you seem interested in lakota's representation in place names in your locality so I thought this one might interest you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtakhaba
chownah
Interesting how 'Sleepy Eye' is different from how I spelled it out from the dictionary. I simple did a two word translation; obviously doesn't take into account the languaging nuances.
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by No_Mind » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am

JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am
Thanks Chownah. Not really off topic as this discussion does help explain to NoMind why Americans don't announce which country we're from (do we really know?).
Jeff, you and David are good Americans. But you know as well as I do that Americans do not announce which country they are from because of hubris.

The member whose introductory thread set me off, lar307, is a Romanian who has migrated to USA. He clearly states so in his second post. I doubt he said "Warm greetings from Wyoming" due to reasons you stated.

It is arrogance .. we are wealthy enough to drive a 3.2 liter turbocharged V6 but you French/Brits/Germans drive 1.5 liter compact cars .. we are bigger .. and biggah is bettah (as Eido Roshi would pronounce it).

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am
JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am
Thanks Chownah. Not really off topic as this discussion does help explain to NoMind why Americans don't announce which country we're from (do we really know?).
Jeff, you and David are good Americans. But you know as well as I do that Americans do not announce which country they are from because of hubris.
I don't know what India is like to live in, politically or anything, but as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries. That might have an effect on how people choose to locate themselves within it.

For instance, in Canada, the laws are generally the same from province to province. A few things will change here or there but its basically one country. The disparity between states in 'the states' is much greater than many other countries.

In India do people say "I'm from ________, India" or do they say "I'm from _________, in the Punjab" (or any other region)? Particularly if the town they are from is very small and unlikely to be known.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by No_Mind » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:41 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am
JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am
Thanks Chownah. Not really off topic as this discussion does help explain to NoMind why Americans don't announce which country we're from (do we really know?).
Jeff, you and David are good Americans. But you know as well as I do that Americans do not announce which country they are from because of hubris.
I don't know what India is like to live in, politically or anything, but as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries. That might have an effect on how people choose to locate themselves within it.

For instance, in Canada, the laws are generally the same from province to province. A few things will change here or there but its basically one country. The disparity between states in 'the states' is much greater than many other countries.

In India do people say "I'm from ________, India" or do they say "I'm from _________, in the Punjab" (or any other region)? Particularly if the town they are from is very small and unlikely to be known.
I completely refute the notion that America is 50 different countries. Only one country can lay claim to that .. it is India and to large extent erstwhile Soviet Republic.

If I were to introduce myself to you I would say I am from India, not I am from Jamalpur, Bihar. If I were to introduce myself to another Indian, I would say I am from Jamalpur, Bihar.

US is one of the most homogeneous nations in the world .. in terms of food, culture, attire, the way law and order works .. state tax laws, divorce laws, child care/custody laws etc differ but that is not something a tourist (or even someone who stays in US for 2 years) can understand or needs to understand.

Yes accents differ but not as much as Queens English, BBC/posh English, Cockney, West Country, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Yorkshire ...

We have 1,500 different languages .. what to say about accents!! Here every 300 miles you literally enter a new country (Like going from Germany to France to Spain ...)

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by No_Mind » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:10 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am
JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:53 am
Thanks Chownah. Not really off topic as this discussion does help explain to NoMind why Americans don't announce which country we're from (do we really know?).
Jeff, you and David are good Americans. But you know as well as I do that Americans do not announce which country they are from because of hubris.
I don't know what India is like to live in, politically or anything,
This question needs to be answered since India is absent from almost all media .. there are too many badly made YT videos showing any one part of India

This is 16 part vlog made by a British woman (open in a new tab and let the whole of it play) Very real/authentic. This is India (though she rides everywhere by bus which we do not do .. there are nice air conditioned trains and planes to everywhere)



and by an expatriate family



:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:41 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am


Jeff, you and David are good Americans. But you know as well as I do that Americans do not announce which country they are from because of hubris.
I don't know what India is like to live in, politically or anything, but as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries. That might have an effect on how people choose to locate themselves within it.

For instance, in Canada, the laws are generally the same from province to province. A few things will change here or there but its basically one country. The disparity between states in 'the states' is much greater than many other countries.

In India do people say "I'm from ________, India" or do they say "I'm from _________, in the Punjab" (or any other region)? Particularly if the town they are from is very small and unlikely to be known.
I completely refute the notion that America is 50 different countries.
Unfortunately, I completely refute your refutation. But that is ok. People can disagree. You seem mostly to be looking at ethnic and cultural diversity. I was thinking about the differing politics and cultures (not ethnic cultures, just cultures) between states.

For instance, Canada doesn't really have a "the South", despite being a much larger country. There's Quebec, but thats about it. Talking to someone from London, Ontario and talking to someone from Vancouver, British Columbia isn't substantially different. There isn't a huge culture gap that needs to be navigated. Compare that with New York and Alabama. And they are on the same sides of the country.

They look like good documentaries though.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:42 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:41 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
I don't know what India is like to live in, politically or anything, but as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries. That might have an effect on how people choose to locate themselves within it.

For instance, in Canada, the laws are generally the same from province to province. A few things will change here or there but its basically one country. The disparity between states in 'the states' is much greater than many other countries.

In India do people say "I'm from ________, India" or do they say "I'm from _________, in the Punjab" (or any other region)? Particularly if the town they are from is very small and unlikely to be known.
I completely refute the notion that America is 50 different countries.
Unfortunately, I completely refute your refutation. But that is ok. People can disagree. You seem mostly to be looking at ethnic and cultural diversity. I was thinking about the differing politics and cultures (not ethnic cultures, just cultures) between states.

For instance, Canada doesn't really have a "the South", despite being a much larger country. There's Quebec, but thats about it. Talking to someone from London, Ontario and talking to someone from Vancouver, British Columbia isn't substantially different. There isn't a huge culture gap that needs to be navigated. Compare that with New York and Alabama. And they are on the same sides of the country.

They look like good documentaries though.
I'm not sure how things are now, but there used to be quite a divide between Quebec and the rest of Canada. I haven't been in decades.

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by binocular » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries.
Absolutely. Some Americans explained to me that in their view, the US is comparable to Europe (as a whole; especially comparable to the European Union); ie. that just like in Europe, there are different countries that are in some kind of union, so in the US, there are different countries that are in some kind of union. But that there is as much difference between any two US states as there is difference between any two European countries.

I can't quite understand that, but it's interesting to know that some Americans have this perspective.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am
I was thinking about the differing politics and cultures (not ethnic cultures, just cultures) between states.
To me, personally, the US seems pretty much like all one, all the same. I don't understand how Americans can see such distinctions between the states as many seem to do, other than geographical and economical. But maybe to them, those distinctions are of much more significance and they understand them in much more detail than an outsider can.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:25 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries.
Absolutely. Some Americans explained to me that in their view, the US is comparable to Europe (as a whole; especially comparable to the European Union); ie. that just like in Europe, there are different countries that are in some kind of union, so in the US, there are different countries that are in some kind of union. But that there is as much difference between any two US states as there is difference between any two European countries.

I can't quite understand that, but it's interesting to know that some Americans have this perspective.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am
I was thinking about the differing politics and cultures (not ethnic cultures, just cultures) between states.
To me, personally, the US seems pretty much like all one, all the same. I don't understand how Americans can see such distinctions between the states as many seem to do, other than geographical and economical. But maybe to them, those distinctions are of much more significance and they understand them in much more detail than an outsider can.
I think you are essentially correct. Keep in mind, all Americans speak English, basically have the same laws with minor variations, watch the same tv programs, and eat the same style food. The biggest variations are economic, rich and poor, and the racial divide. Americans tend toward exaggeration and make mountains out of mole hills. It is nothing like European cultures with their own histories. Perhaps they share some hobbies with Europeans like drug use and drinking, but smoking has declined dramatically. :D

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:06 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 am
Some Americans explained to me that in their view, the US is comparable to Europe (as a whole; especially comparable to the European Union); ie. that just like in Europe, there are different countries that are in some kind of union, so in the US, there are different countries that are in some kind of union.
It might have something to do with the huge and and public conscious focus on so-called "State's Rights" in America. Canada, for instance, does not have "states rights" as a notion in politics at all. Quebec speaks a different language, but it is relatively normal internationally to have multiple languages in your country, and I don't really see that as a sign of diversity.

I don't think the division between the Quebecois & the Anglos is nearly as steep as difference as Republic vs Democrat in the states, since most of the Quebecois speak English. And we're talking about a largely completely artificial difference here: which politics makes one feel better.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

User avatar
JeffR
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:54 am
Location: Minnesota, Lakota Nation (Occupier)

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by JeffR » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:29 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:25 am
binocular wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:11 am
as another non-American, I think it is easy to forget that America isn't really "one country" in the way that other "one countries" are "one country". Its basically 50 countries.
Absolutely. Some Americans explained to me that in their view, the US is comparable to Europe (as a whole; especially comparable to the European Union); ie. that just like in Europe, there are different countries that are in some kind of union, so in the US, there are different countries that are in some kind of union. But that there is as much difference between any two US states as there is difference between any two European countries.

I can't quite understand that, but it's interesting to know that some Americans have this perspective.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:51 am
I was thinking about the differing politics and cultures (not ethnic cultures, just cultures) between states.
To me, personally, the US seems pretty much like all one, all the same. I don't understand how Americans can see such distinctions between the states as many seem to do, other than geographical and economical. But maybe to them, those distinctions are of much more significance and they understand them in much more detail than an outsider can.
I think you are essentially correct. Keep in mind, all Americans speak English, basically have the same laws with minor variations, watch the same tv programs, and eat the same style food. The biggest variations are economic, rich and poor, and the racial divide. Americans tend toward exaggeration and make mountains out of mole hills. It is nothing like European cultures with their own histories. Perhaps they share some hobbies with Europeans like drug use and drinking, but smoking has declined dramatically. :D
Lots of comments, as a well traveled Minnesotan/American, I'll attempt to clear up some of the great misconceptions.

Saengnapha, your response to binocular's response is incorrect. We are not the same, and it's not merely about politics or wealth (although there is some of that too). Lots of wealthy people in Minnesota, lots of poor people, lots of insane Trumpie's, lots of common sense politically; we're all Minnesotans.

I have lived and traveled outside of the US and believe I understand why NoMind thinks it's hubris; I am quite familiar with what we Americans who've lived as expats call "the ugly American" (it's embarassing, as an American. One reason not to identify as one). That is something different which rears it's ugly head outside of our country, rarely within.
NoMind, to your point, there is a 'syndrom' that occurs with some immigrants here who have come from an oppressed situation (economically and/or politically) and become engroused in self pride of their newly gained "status". That is an individual thing, it does not reflect anything about Americans, immigrant or born & bred.

When abroad, you can pick out an American in a crowd a mile away; so there is an appearance of gentrification. Get us together and that goes away. I explained in a different post on this thread about a job I worked on in Shanghai where we had an American from each of the following cultures: Minnesota, Boston, North Carolina, Texas, and California. When we went to dinner together with a handful of the locals we were working with, the locals were astonished at how different we are. Yes, the way we all talk different was one thing but it is far more than that. Hard to explain, we're just different and I am NOT like anyone from the South, although I love their culture (hate their Jim Crow). I stick out like a sore thumb anywhere in the New England area. Then there's all those cultures spread out across the great plains and all the way to the Pacific Ocean; not to mention Alaska and the island state & territories. Even in nearby states we're different. I can typically pick out a cheesehead pretty fast, you'll be hard pressed to find someone from other parts of the US that can distinguish a Minnesotan from a Cheesehead (Cheeseheads are people from Wisconsin).

The simple answer to the OP, for most, is we don't say from the USA because that's not what we identify as.
NoMind has explained where his query came from and that is a different matter.
For me; I'm from Minnesota. I understand many people don't know where that is so I had put Minnesota, USA.
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16472
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:12 pm

JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:29 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:25 am

Lots of comments, as a well traveled Minnesotan/American, I'll attempt to clear up some of the great misconceptions. ...
Thanks Geoff. I lived in Virginia (Charlottesville) for over three years back in the 80's and in the Chicago area for 5 months in the late 90s, as well as visiting various places for shorter times, and I certainly agree that there are large variations - more like being in different countries in some cases.

I suspect that such differences are noticable in any large country. I've only visited India once, but there are obviously large variations across China...

:heart:
Mike

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Why do Americans not have to announce which country they are from?

Post by binocular » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:23 pm

JeffR wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:29 pm
We are not the same, and it's not merely about politics or wealth (although there is some of that too).
Given that Americans are geographically so mobile (moving to another state because of education or work seems to be regarded as normal, not sure how statistically common it is), how can they maintain some kind of specific culture for each state?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests