What is the sixth sense base ?

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James Tan
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What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm

Greetings ,

According to sutta , the sixth consciousness arises from the contact of the mind which is the sixth sense base versus mental objects .
Therefore , what would you think is the sixth sense base ? Would you think the sixth sense base is of matter or non matter ?


James Tan
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:03 pm

Saṃyutta Nikāya 35

Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases

234. Udayi

On one occasion the Venerable Ānanda and the Venerable Udayī were dwelling at Kosambī in Ghosita’s Park. Then, in the evening, the Venerable Udayī emerged from seclusion and approached the Venerable Ānanda. He exchanged greetings with the Venerable Ānanda and, when they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:

“Friend Ānanda, in many ways the nature of this body has been declared, disclosed, and revealed by the Blessed One thus: ‘For such a reason this body is nonself.’ Is it possible to explain the nature of this consciousness in a similar way—to teach, proclaim, establish, disclose, analyse, and elucidate it thus: ‘For such a reason this consciousness is nonself’?”

“It is possible, friend Udayī. Doesn’t eye-consciousness arise in dependence on the eye and forms?”
“Yes, friend.”

“If the cause and condition for the arising of eye-consciousness would cease completely and totally without remainder, could eye-consciousness be discerned?”

“No, friend.”

“In this way, friend, this has been declared, disclosed, and revealed by the Blessed One thus: ‘For such a reason this consciousness is nonself.’

“Doesn’t ear-consciousness arise in dependence on the ear and sounds?… Doesn’t mind-consciousness arise in dependence on the mind and mental phenomena?”

“Yes, friend.”

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rightviewftw
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:42 pm

Intellect & Idea (i personally prefer conception rather than idea but w/e)
intellect & Idea & Consciousness when there is the meeting of the three, then there is Contact at Intellect Base, upon contact there arises Intellect-Consciousness.

Virgo
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by Virgo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:02 pm

James Tan wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm
Greetings ,

According to sutta , the sixth consciousness arises from the contact of the mind which is the sixth sense base versus mental objects .
Therefore , what would you think is the sixth sense base ? Would you think the sixth sense base is of matter or non matter ?
Hi James, according to tradition it is a small rūpa in the heart.
best
Kevin


2600htz
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by 2600htz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 pm

Hello:
"And what [monks] is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and the form dependent on the four great elements: This is called form. This name & this form are, [monks], called name-&-form."[2]
In buddhism psychological elements of the human person are usually called nāma, so the mind base is mentality, not matter/materiality.

Regards.

Virgo
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by Virgo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:27 pm

2600htz wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 pm
In buddhism psychological elements of the human person are usually called nāma, so the mind base is mentality, not matter/materiality.

Regards.
Hi htz,

If it doesn't have a physical base it wouldn't be tied to a person. In that case no one would have the experience of your mind (no one speaking conventionally). In the same way, seeing cognizes an object so it is mental, yet it relies on a physical sense organ, so that it is a specific persons body that sees, and sees things in conjunction with that specific body/individual. It seems there must be a physical component if it is tied to an 'individual' (speaking conventionally). We have a body-mind process.

Kevin

James Tan
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:48 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:02 pm
James Tan wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm
Greetings ,

According to sutta , the sixth consciousness arises from the contact of the mind which is the sixth sense base versus mental objects .
Therefore , what would you think is the sixth sense base ? Would you think the sixth sense base is of matter or non matter ?
Hi James, according to tradition it is a small rūpa in the heart.
best
Kevin
Hi Kevin , the problem is sutta never said so .
Some people take it as brain .
Six senses base supposed to be regarded of matter .
If that is so , what is nama then is also of matter .

James Tan
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:56 am

2600htz wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:05 pm
Hello:
"And what [monks] is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and the form dependent on the four great elements: This is called form. This name & this form are, [monks], called name-&-form."[2]
In buddhism psychological elements of the human person are usually called nāma, so the mind base is mentality, not matter/materiality.

Regards.
Hi , we are use to take the nama as something belongs to of non matter . But , could it be possible nama is Unseen matter !

pinit29
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by pinit29 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:47 am

Buddha once taught about Atta (in Pali means self). Atta that creates you, me or us consist of rupa (matter, visible objects) and nama (non-matter, mind).

Rupa creates 5 senses (Sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touch) through Eyes, ears, nose, tougue, and body).

Nama creates the 6th sense (feeling, thought) through heart(or mind).

Note that: Citta is a characteristic(or tools) for the heart (or mind) to acknowlege the feeling or thought.

chownah
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:03 am

It seems that one's state of mind is strongly influenced by one's brain chemistry.

It seems that what thoughts arise in the mind is strongly influenced by brain chemistry.

It seems that the contents of dreams strongly correlate to events in the brain.

It seems that the arising of memory of things is strongly associated with certain activity in the brain.

chownah

Dinsdale
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Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:12 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:51 pm
According to sutta , the sixth consciousness arises from the contact of the mind which is the sixth sense base versus mental objects .
Therefore , what would you think is the sixth sense base ? Would you think the sixth sense base is of matter or non matter ?
In the suttas the consciousness at each of the six bases arises in dependence on sense-base and sense-object. For example eye-consciousness arises in dependence on the eye and visible form. Similarly mind-consciousness arises in dependence on mind-base and mind-object ( some translators prefer "intellect-consciousness" to "mind-consciousness" ). I view mind as "mentality" rather than "materiality", since it's objects are mental. The other five bases have derived form ( "materiality" ) as their object.

From the Loka Sutta:
"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises ear-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises nose-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises tongue-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises body-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the intellect & mental qualities there arises intellect-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact..."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Buddha save me from new-agers!

justindesilva
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Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by justindesilva » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:12 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:03 am
It seems that one's state of mind is strongly influenced by one's brain chemistry.

It seems that what thoughts arise in the mind is strongly influenced by brain chemistry.

It seems that the contents of dreams strongly correlate to events in the brain.

It seems that the arising of memory of things is strongly associated with certain activity in the brain.

chownah
The question in the post is regarding the sixth sense base. I do feel that then it is here all first 5 sense bases are with our corporeal body and is placed in the ear, nose, tongue, eyes and the tactile( skin). But where the sixth sense base is a matter of argument and is argued to be in the heart named as Hadaya vastu or another argues as this base being in the brain. The sixth organ named manendriya is not located anywhere specifically in the body but somewhere unspecified. The manendriya is believed to be in contact with the 7th vingnana and the eigth vingnana as alaya vingnana. The manendriya is mostly active in dreams and unconscious modes as alaya vingnana is connected with the subconscious mind.

chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:58 am

justindesilva wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:12 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:03 am
It seems that one's state of mind is strongly influenced by one's brain chemistry.

It seems that what thoughts arise in the mind is strongly influenced by brain chemistry.

It seems that the contents of dreams strongly correlate to events in the brain.

It seems that the arising of memory of things is strongly associated with certain activity in the brain.

chownah
The question in the post is regarding the sixth sense base. I do feel that then it is here all first 5 sense bases are with our corporeal body and is placed in the ear, nose, tongue, eyes and the tactile( skin). But where the sixth sense base is a matter of argument and is argued to be in the heart named as Hadaya vastu or another argues as this base being in the brain. The sixth organ named manendriya is not located anywhere specifically in the body but somewhere unspecified. The manendriya is believed to be in contact with the 7th vingnana and the eigth vingnana as alaya vingnana. The manendriya is mostly active in dreams and unconscious modes as alaya vingnana is connected with the subconscious mind.
I don't know what you are talking about....can you explain this in english?
chownah

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