Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

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DooDoot
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Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:09 pm

Dear forum

I read this quote posted in the music thread:
Apparently, headman, I haven't been able to get past you by saying, 'Enough, headman, put that aside. Don't ask me that.' So I will simply answer you. Any beings who are not devoid of passion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of passion, focus with even more passion on things inspiring passion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of aversion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of aversion, focus with even more aversion on things inspiring aversion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Any beings who are not devoid of delusion to begin with, who are bound by the bond of delusion, focus with even more delusion on things inspiring delusion presented by an actor on stage in the midst of a festival. Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter. But if he holds such a view as this: 'When an actor on the stage, in the midst of a festival, makes people laugh & gives them delight with his imitation of reality, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of the laughing devas,' that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."
Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb? Do all musicians necessarily go to hell or the animal womb? Please discuss.

:smile:
Funny vs. Happy: 30 Comedians Who Had Major Depression ...

http://psychologia.co/comedians-and-depression/
What's the Deal With Comedians and Depression? - ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/deal-comed ... d=24945911
Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison all died at the age of 27 between 1969 and 1971. At the time, the coincidence gave rise to some comment, but it was not until the death of Kurt Cobain, about two and a half decades later, that the idea of a "27 Club" began to catch on in public perception.... In 2011, seventeen years after Cobain's death, Amy Winehouse died at the age of 27, and there was a large amount of media attention devoted to the club once again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/27_Club

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cappuccino
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:16 pm

Thus the actor — himself intoxicated & heedless, having made others intoxicated & heedless — with the breakup of the body, after death, is reborn in what is called the hell of laughter.

binocular
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by binocular » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:26 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:09 pm
Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?
As far as I understand the sutta, it's because he is intoxicated & heedless, and has made others intoxicated & heedless. Heedlessness is grounds for hell or the animal womb.
Do all musicians necessarily go to hell or the animal womb?
If they are heedless and they encourage others to be heedless, then it would appear so.

I can't think of any musician, popular or classical, who is not heedless in/through their art in some way. And of course comedians -- comedy is blatant heedlessness.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:49 pm

It is not right that a being spends his time delighting in sense pleasure, becoming lustful he becomes infatuated by sense pleasures, pleasurable ideas he likes to entertain, pleasurable sounds he seeks out, pleasurable sight objects does he seek. Having sought them out he delights in them, the perception of pleasure in what is stress arises in him in regards to Formations he thus attained. On account of that pervesion of perception he will be molested and assailed by infatuation with suffering, compelled to seek out his own demise. Like an insect eating a poisonous plant that kills it.

How is it right livelyhood to compell others to intoxication, entertaining their craving for sense pleasures, their lust.. It is like prostitution & drug dealing in this sense. It also essentially leads people to Death not to Deathless, therefore it is like Dealing in weapons and death by implication.

I do not say that all ententainers go to hell. I just think it is unwholesome livelyhood and dangerous especially with if person holds some bad views at moment of death it is a hell sentence i am sure.
SN 22.79 PTS: S iii 86
CDB i 914
Khajjaniya Sutta: Chewed Up
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

At Savatthi. "Monks, any brahmans or contemplatives who recollect their manifold past lives all recollect the five clinging-aggregates, or one among them. Which five? When recollecting, 'I was one with such a form in the past,' one is recollecting just form. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a feeling in the past,' one is recollecting just feeling. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a perception in the past,' one is recollecting just perception. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such mental fabrications in the past,' one is recollecting just mental fabrications. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a consciousness in the past,' one is recollecting just consciousness.

"And why do you call it 'form'?[1] Because it is afflicted,[2] thus it is called 'form.' Afflicted with what? With cold & heat & hunger & thirst, with the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, & reptiles. Because it is afflicted, it is called form.

"And why do you call it 'feeling'? Because it feels, thus it is called 'feeling.' What does it feel? It feels pleasure, it feels pain, it feels neither-pleasure-nor-pain. Because it feels, it is called feeling.

"And why do you call it 'perception'? Because it perceives, thus it is called 'perception.' What does it perceive? It perceives blue, it perceives yellow, it perceives red, it perceives white. Because it perceives, it is called perception.

"And why do you call them 'fabrications'? Because they fabricate fabricated things, thus they are called 'fabrications.' What do they fabricate as a fabricated thing? For the sake of form-ness, they fabricate form as a fabricated thing. For the sake of feeling-ness, they fabricate feeling as a fabricated thing. For the sake of perception-hood... For the sake of fabrication-hood... For the sake of consciousness-hood, they fabricate consciousness as a fabricated thing. Because they fabricate fabricated things, they are called fabrications. [3]

"And why do you call it 'consciousness'? Because it cognizes, thus it is called consciousness. What does it cognize? It cognizes what is sour, bitter, pungent, sweet, alkaline, non-alkaline, salty, & unsalty. Because it cognizes, it is called consciousness.

"Thus an instructed disciple of the noble ones reflects in this way: 'I am now being chewed up by form. But in the past I was also chewed up by form in the same way I am now being chewed up by present form. And if I delight in future form, then in the future I will be chewed up by form in the same way I am now being chewed up by present form.' Having reflected in this way, he becomes indifferent to past form, does not delight in future form, and is practicing for the sake of disenchantment, dispassion, and cessation with regard to present form.

"[He reflects:] ''I am now being chewed up by feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness. But in the past I was also chewed up by consciousness in the same way I am now being chewed up by present consciousness. And if I delight in future consciousness, then in the future I will be chewed up by consciousness in the same way I am now being chewed up by present consciousness.' Having reflected in this way, he becomes indifferent to past consciousness, does not delight in future consciousness, and is practicing for the sake of disenchantment, dispassion, and cessation with regard to present consciousness.

"What do you think, monks — Is form constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord." "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?" "Stressful, lord." "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

"No, lord."

"... Is feeling constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"... Is perception constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"... Are fabrications constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord."...

"What do you think, monks — Is consciousness constant or inconstant?" "Inconstant, lord." "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?" "Stressful, lord." "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

"No, lord."

"Thus, monks, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

"Any feeling whatsoever...

"Any perception whatsoever...

"Any fabrications whatsoever...

"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

"This, monks, is called a disciple of the noble ones who tears down and does not build up; who abandons and does not cling; who discards and does not pull in; who scatters and does not pile up.

"And what does he tear down and not build up? He tears down form and does not build it up. He tears down feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not build it up.

"And what does he abandon and not cling to? He abandons form and does not cling to it. He abandons feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not cling to it.

"And what does he discard and not pull in? He discards form and does not pull it in. He discards feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not pull it in.

"And what does he scatter and not pile up? He scatters form and does not pile it up. He scatters feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not pile it up.

"Seeing thus, the instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'

"This, monks, is called a disciple of the noble ones who neither builds up nor tears down, but who stands having torn down; who neither clings nor abandons, but who stands having abandoned; who neither pulls in nor discards, but who stands having discarded; who neither piles up nor scatters, but who stands having scattered.

"And what is it that he neither builds up nor tears down, but stands having torn it down? He neither builds up nor tears down form, but stands having torn it down. He neither builds up nor tears down feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, but stands having torn it down.

"And what is it that he neither clings to nor abandons, but stands having abandoned it? He neither clings to nor abandons form, but stands having abandoned it. He neither clings to nor abandons feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, but stands having abandoned it.

"And what is it that he neither pulls in nor discards, but stands having discarded it? He neither pulls in nor discards form, but stands having discarded it. He neither pulls in nor discards feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, but stands having discarded it.

"And what is it that he neither piles up nor scatters, but stands having scattered it? He neither piles up nor scatters form, but stands having scattered it. He neither piles up nor scatters feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness, but stands having scattered it.

"And to the monk whose mind is thus released, the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, pay homage even from afar:

'Homage to you, O thoroughbred man.
Homage to you, O superlative man —
you of whom we don't know even what
dependent on which
you're absorbed.'"
AN 5.177 PTS: A iii 208
Vanijja Sutta: Business (Wrong Livelihood)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2001

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:58 pm

Couple for why comedian does not necessarily go to hell
https://suttacentral.net/en/an3.68
...‘Friends, there are these three qualities. Which three?
  • Passion, aversion, & delusion.
These are the three qualities. Now what is the difference, what the distinction, what the distinguishing factor among these three qualities?’—when thus asked, you should answer those wanderers of other sects in this way,
  • ‘Friends, passion carries little blame and is slow to fade.
  • Aversion carries great blame and is quick to fade.
  • Delusion carries great blame and is slow to fade.
...
Sarakaani Sutta;
...
"Take the case of another man. He is endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. But he is not joyous in wisdom and has not gained release. Yet by destroying three fetters[6] and weakening lust, hatred and delusion, he is a Once-returner, who will return once more to this world and put an end to suffering. That man is entirely freed from... states of woe.

"Take the case of another man. He is endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. But he is not joyous in wisdom and has not gained release. Yet by destroying three fetters he is a Stream-Winner, not subject to rebirth in states of woe, assured of enlightenment. That man is entirely freed... from states of woe.

"Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But perhaps he has these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. And the things proclaimed by the Tathaagata are moderately approved by him with insight. That man does not go to the realm of hungry ghosts, to the downfall, to the evil way, to states of woe.

"Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathaagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe.[7]

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:27 pm

It is easy to imagine when you look at the vain, self-indulgent way some celebrities behave.

Perhaps there is a baseline degree of vanity present in those who entertain that would qualify as the intoxication the Buddha is referring to. Think about it, you have to want to be revered by your audience if you are doing something that is essentially for them. The humble "do it for the craft" entertainer is extremely rare and borders on mythological - they do it to feel that impression that they put upon the audience. Imagining themselves as someone who means something to others is the magic they each describe in one way or another as being the whole of the reason they became an entertainer.

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Circle5 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 pm

Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?
Because of not being PC enough with his jokes

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:49 pm

SDC wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:27 pm
the intoxication the Buddha is referring to.
I think it is more fundamental than that. I think it is closer to what we would call a dopamine rush which is associated with compulsion to attain on account of seemingly pleasurable ideas, on account of craving for feelings, states and sensations, on account of perception of lacking, it is a stressful compulsion.

People then go out of their Path [way], compromising their goals & ethics to attain the object of their desire and to satisfy nothing but their craving, eliminate nothing but the state of lacking, to eliminate the stress there.

When thus attained the formations of his desire, this satisfaction, this stilling, this cessation of lacking, that is the freedom from that stress of wanting, freedom from that compulsion that is the taste of freedom from stress there. The chemical released when attaining stilling of dopamine surge is serotonine and or oxytocin, these are both assosciated with satisfaction, happiness and peace.

Ie of sexual act, dopamine would be associated with the hornyness that makes u crazy and serotonin with the pleasurable satisfaction at the end. oxytocin would be associated with feeling of comfort, peace and harmony from bonding with another.

However nothing lasts and the formation is not really all that satisfying and comes at high cost, the person ends up really confused he thinks that the pleasure of stilling of craving is pleasure from sense object and further cultivates wrong perception, attributing a feeling with characteristics of peace, happiness, strengthening his neural bonds of mispeception, wrong attributing X&Y to Z, so he will crave it more often and get more efficient at attaining it.

Nibbana is Highest Peace & Happiness
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:23 am, edited 19 times in total.

SarathW
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SarathW » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:54 pm

Perhaps the act of comedy has its root cause in attachment, aversion, and ignorance.
Perhaps they come under Musavada in extended sense and break the fourth and eighth precepts.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:01 am

Circle5 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 pm
Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?
Because of not being PC enough with his jokes
What PC joke was ever funny? ;)

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mikenz66
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:02 am

Circle5 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 pm
Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?
Because of not being PC enough with his jokes
Do you have a sutta reference for that claim?

:tongue:
Mike

Circle5
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Circle5 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:17 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:02 am
Circle5 wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:37 pm
Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?
Because of not being PC enough with his jokes
Do you have a sutta reference for that claim?

:tongue:
Mike
Of course:
Bhikkhus! A comedian making non-PC jokes produces much outrage in the world. Through his non-PC jokes, he causes other people to get angry and upset. In this life, villagers might attack him with torches and forks, or in a best case they will boycott and shut down his speeches. After the break-up of the body, he is reborn in hell or the animal womb. Thus, bhikkhus, a comedian making non-PC jokes produces much demerit for himself and he experiences suffering both in this life and the next one.

SarathW
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SarathW » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:20 am

Sorry, what is PC?
Is it politically correct?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:23 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:20 am
Sorry, what is PC?
Is it politically correct?
Yes.

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:24 am

Circle5 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:17 am
Bhikkhus! A comedian making non-PC jokes produces much outrage in the world. Through his non-PC jokes, he causes other people to get angry and upset. In this life, villagers might attack him with torches and forks, or in a best case they will boycott and shut down his speeches. After the break-up of the body, he is reborn in hell or the animal womb. Thus, bhikkhus, a comedian making non-PC jokes produces much demerit for himself and he experiences suffering both in this life and the next one.
Well played, Romania!

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