Dhutanga in west countries

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Nwad
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Dhutanga in west countries

Post by Nwad » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:31 pm

Hello my friends,

What do you think about dhutanga practice in west (often cold) countries? Who know how to practice it there, how to deal with weather, what gear is permitted , etc...? If some one have more information about dhutanga in west and cold countries? If there is many monks who practice it there ?



:anjali:

rightviewftw
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:53 pm

As a lay person one can easily live in a tent even during the winter using solar or wind to charge a power bank then using low wattage electrode clothing or blankets for heating if necessary. In this way one does not even need to light fire when sick.

One can actually live in -20C weather or so without electricity in a tent, a cave or a snowcave/structure with a decent sleeping bag or clothing if one does not sleep much, getting up in middle of the night to walk, avoiding frostbite and ventilating.

As for food consumption that is so minimal, one can long live on stored goods like rice, beans, nuts. Those are very easy to obtain now and enough to sustain a practice. One could really just not accept alms and live of stored up food and water is free.

This is a viable option for western lay practitioners imo. Because as it is now if a group of Buddhists were to go do this, humanitarian organizations will probably come with food even if one does not want it to prevent starving to death.

I dont think it is optimal tho and that one is better off not going solo but finding a someone equal or better as in a Sotapanna/Dhammafollower+Dhammafollower/Sotapanna or similar with alligned views. Also for not teaching, the teachings are available so unless someone asks i think it is totally fine not to teach and with access to off grid electricity and hardware one can get a lot of translating and work like that done, more so than without it.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Nwad
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by Nwad » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:35 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:53 pm
As a lay person one can easily live in a tent even during the winter
Thank you Rightview to your wise advices :anjali: , it's true that it's not a problem to a lay follower, but it must be litte more difficult for a bhikkhu, so i dont know if some body knows how to do for a bhikkhu ih he wishes to practice dhutanga in west cold countries all year, and actualy when one can spend à winter retreat if Vihara is too far or no one?

rightviewftw
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:00 pm

The cave or a snowcare thing should be possible for monks but they can not have stored food.
here is a person that was living in solitude on stolen food for 27 years in arctic climate, meditating. In end he said stealing compromised his practice and he regret doing it a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Thomas_Knight
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

binocular
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by binocular » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:35 pm

Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

paul
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by paul » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:18 pm


rightviewftw
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:21 pm

i think going to sleep in cold weather knowing one may freeze to death and not wake up is good for mindfulness of death and devotion to wakefulness.

There are guys like Wim Hof who would do fine for sure as well, at least in being able to handle the cold;



i think also in places with little predators maybe one could eat dead animals as in there would be too few predators to eat all dead and a human could sustain himself long term with low effort, anybody knows if possible? :coffee:
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

SarathW
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by SarathW » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am

Thanks for the op video.
Very inspiring.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Nwad
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by Nwad » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:46 am

Oh what is wonderfull ! Thank you Binocular! Bhante Hiriko lives now in Slovenia ? :) :bow: He looks happy :)
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:21 pm
i think going to sleep in cold weather knowing one may freeze to death and not wake up is good for mindfulness of death and devotion to wakefulness.

There are guys like Wim Hof who would do fine for sure as well, at least in being able to handle the cold;
Interesting !

dharmacorps
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by dharmacorps » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:56 pm

I'm from Minnesota originally. There is a joint Thai/Burmese/Sri Lankan Vihara there with several monks, and they do wear additional long underwear/thermals. You basically have to because you would freeze without them. Perhaps the Tibetans might have better ideas about how to handle cold weather as monastics!

rightviewftw
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:27 pm

I will most likely move to forest to live alone in a tent in a couple months as my lease ends, arctic climate but it is warm until october. I am discussing funding with goverment as i declared that i do not consider myself fit for employment when asked to participate in a program also said that i do consider practicing extreme dhutanga and do not consider it a suicide.

They sent me to a clinical psychologist who ended up recomending not working and does not consider me very crazy afaik. He said i scored high end normal on anti-social and schizoid traits, he used the SCL-90.

It is amusing to see how traits like inclination to solitude, equanimity about formations and position that it can happen, it is possible that there are intelligent beings we do not see, are deviations from the norm to the point where it makes criterias for personality disorders.

I will end up going anyway, i find living at home to be way too compromising and it is hard to make the needed resolves, i did not go before because i wanted to ordain, i dont much anymore but i hope it changes.

If people want to criticise me for asking for funding. I did not ask anybody and it would not be legal for people to leave a person below survival means or let me go die, training or not, society would come to "save" or worse hospitalize and force-medicate. So it is natural that i am now discussing this position with the State.

If i do get funding i will spend it to buy necessary requisites for my self and to support the Sangha until i can ordain.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

binocular
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by binocular » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:10 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:27 pm
it would not be legal for people to leave a person below survival means or let me go die, training or not, society would come to "save" or worse hospitalize and force-medicate.
In Norway, maybe. But there are many places in this world where society doesn't care whether a particular person lives or dies, as long as they are not perceived as a threat to others.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Nwad
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by Nwad » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am

Rightview, be carefull about your motivation to practice dhutanga, because if you do it because of hatred toward society, its not will be good for your practice :(
It said that the only reason to practice ghutanga its not prise or hatred or super powers but only mastering of the Path as Buddha practiced it...

:anjali:

rightviewftw
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:01 pm

Nwad wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am
Rightview, be carefull about your motivation to practice dhutanga, because if you do it because of hatred toward society, its not will be good for your practice :(

:anjali:
The Dhamma is real to me, living at home is painful, living in the forest is hard, to me difficult is better than painful.
Better one day training than 100 years living compromised...
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Nwad
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Re: Dhutanga in west countries

Post by Nwad » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:38 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:01 pm
Nwad wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:36 am
Rightview, be carefull about your motivation to practice dhutanga, because if you do it because of hatred toward society, its not will be good for your practice :(

:anjali:
The Dhamma is real to me, living at home is painful, living in the forest is hard, to me difficult is better than painful.
Better one day training than 100 years living compromised...
Its true! I understand you dear Rightview... But i read some texts about dhutanga and its said that its better to purify one's heart before to engage in... But you know what is better for you :) I wish you to success in your future practice my friend :anjali:

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