Clearly it is, it seems you just don't want to accept it. From SN12.2:DooDoot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:11 amBut its not.Dinsdale wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:09 am...just a straightforward observation of what SN12.2 actually says. Or perhaps you just don't like what it says? By all means leave out "descent into the womb" in the description of the birth nidana, my point remains valid across the descriptions of birth, aging and death - they are described in a very physical way. Actually I think you are nit-picking here, because you know my observation is basically accurate.
"And what, bhikkhus, is aging-and-death? The aging of the various beings in the various orders of beings, their growing old, brokenness of teeth, greyness of hair, wrinkling of skin, decline of vitality, degeneration of the faculties: this is called aging. The passing away of the various beings from the various orders of beings, their perishing, breakup, disappearance, mortality, death, completion of time, the breakup of the aggregates, the laying down of the carcass: this is called death. Thus this aging and this death are together called aging-and-death.
“And what, bhikkhus, is birth? The birth of the various beings into the various orders of beings, their being born, descent into the womb, production, the manifestation of the aggregates, the obtaining of the sense bases. This is called birth.
“And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence."