Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
DCM
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by DCM » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:35 pm

one_awakening wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:39 am
I don't believe you need to sit for long periods to enter Jhana. I can enter the first Jhana in about one hour, but I've been meditating ever day for eight years.

I think it's more important to meditate every day, so you can develop you concentration which allows you to enter the Jhanas.

It also depends on the person. Some people enter the Jhanas reasonably easily while others never enter the Jhanas.
Out if interest, how many times and for how long do you mediatate each day?

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Zom
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Zom » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:56 pm

I believe that as one purifies the mind to greater levels Jhanic states will arise more often but I don’t feel it necessary to master any type of jhana in order to purify the mind.
I think that some concentration practices can be counterproductive to liberation.
This is rather harmful view stated by vipassanists and it leads to degradation and disappearance of true Dhamma (see SN 16.13). Four jhanas are crucial to Buddha's original teaching, they constitute 8th (final) path factor. Without them one goes astray and won't reach full enlightenment.

thepea
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by thepea » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:19 pm

Zom wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:56 pm

This is rather harmful view stated by vipassanists and it leads to degradation and disappearance of true Dhamma (see SN 16.13). Four jhanas are crucial to Buddha's original teaching, they constitute 8th (final) path factor. Without them one goes astray and won't reach full enlightenment.
I could say that your view is equally harmful to true dhamma, so let’s not do that and simply share our understandings of dhamma.
Yes the jhanas are required for transcendence but one need not concern themself with jhanas nor do they have to master any jhanas. One needs only simply observe that which presents itself from one moment to the next with a calm and equanimous mind when this occurs one is liberating their past self when a level of purification is reached trancendence will take place and jhanas will arise.

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cappuccino
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:37 pm

thepea wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:19 pm
One needs only simply observe that which presents itself from one moment to the next with a calm and equanimous mind
Yes, that is jhana.

A belief of difficulty is the obstacle.

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one_awakening
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by one_awakening » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:45 am

DCM wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:35 pm
one_awakening wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:39 am
I don't believe you need to sit for long periods to enter Jhana. I can enter the first Jhana in about one hour, but I've been meditating ever day for eight years.

I think it's more important to meditate every day, so you can develop you concentration which allows you to enter the Jhanas.

It also depends on the person. Some people enter the Jhanas reasonably easily while others never enter the Jhanas.
Out if interest, how many times and for how long do you mediatate each day?

Two one hour sits per day. One of those sits may go for two hours. I also do walking meditation. I do Satipatthana throughout the day as well.

I should add, that I don't get into Jhana with every sit. Just from time to time.
Last edited by one_awakening on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
“You only lose what you cling to”

chownah
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by chownah » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:10 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:29 am
thepea wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:22 am
justindesilva wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:52 am

jhanas are stages of bringing the mind in to one pointedness. It needs training. As an example it is like training to swim ir to ride a byke. How long one takes depends on one' s interest and application.
Yes but why is this important?
It is only a belief. Someone told you that this is important. There are no jhanas outside of your thought process. It is a contrived, fabricated mental activity that has no essential reality and is perpetuated through the belief that they will help you realize/understand why you feel as shitty as you do. These beliefs that these things are important and will change you is a fallacy. It is your creation because you create a someone who is in trouble, who should be experiencing something other than what your current experience is. You create a problem and you create a solution to this non-existing 'thing'. Freeing yourself is another myth. How can you free something that doesn't even exist? All this thinking is tied together like a bundle. It is created by history, culture, the past. There is nothing separate in yourself from this that 'observes'. Even the observation is part of this bundle. It is an extraordinary illusion.
About what you say:
It is only a belief. Someone told you that your belief is important. You don't know what exists outside of thought process....how could you know? You don't know if jhanas are important for other people....all that you could possibly know is if they are important for you....no need to project your own supposed conditions onto everyone else as there is no basis for doing this.

What you say seems to go against the Four Noble Truths. I would certainly be interested in hearing your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.

What you say sounds alot like the UG Krishnamurti guy......are you prosletising here again?

chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:18 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:10 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:29 am
thepea wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:22 am


Yes but why is this important?
It is only a belief. Someone told you that this is important. There are no jhanas outside of your thought process. It is a contrived, fabricated mental activity that has no essential reality and is perpetuated through the belief that they will help you realize/understand why you feel as shitty as you do. These beliefs that these things are important and will change you is a fallacy. It is your creation because you create a someone who is in trouble, who should be experiencing something other than what your current experience is. You create a problem and you create a solution to this non-existing 'thing'. Freeing yourself is another myth. How can you free something that doesn't even exist? All this thinking is tied together like a bundle. It is created by history, culture, the past. There is nothing separate in yourself from this that 'observes'. Even the observation is part of this bundle. It is an extraordinary illusion.
About what you say:
It is only a belief. Someone told you that your belief is important. You don't know what exists outside of thought process....how could you know? You don't know if jhanas are important for other people....all that you could possibly know is if they are important for you....no need to project your own supposed conditions onto everyone else as there is no basis for doing this.

What you say seems to go against the Four Noble Truths. I would certainly be interested in hearing your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.

What you say sounds alot like the UG Krishnamurti guy......are you prosletising here again?

chownah
It is easy to take your position when communicating anything on a board like this. It is rife with misunderstandings and personal interpretations. What else is new?

chownah
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by chownah » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:35 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:18 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:10 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:29 am


It is only a belief. Someone told you that this is important. There are no jhanas outside of your thought process. It is a contrived, fabricated mental activity that has no essential reality and is perpetuated through the belief that they will help you realize/understand why you feel as shitty as you do. These beliefs that these things are important and will change you is a fallacy. It is your creation because you create a someone who is in trouble, who should be experiencing something other than what your current experience is. You create a problem and you create a solution to this non-existing 'thing'. Freeing yourself is another myth. How can you free something that doesn't even exist? All this thinking is tied together like a bundle. It is created by history, culture, the past. There is nothing separate in yourself from this that 'observes'. Even the observation is part of this bundle. It is an extraordinary illusion.
About what you say:
It is only a belief. Someone told you that your belief is important. You don't know what exists outside of thought process....how could you know? You don't know if jhanas are important for other people....all that you could possibly know is if they are important for you....no need to project your own supposed conditions onto everyone else as there is no basis for doing this.

What you say seems to go against the Four Noble Truths. I would certainly be interested in hearing your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.

What you say sounds alot like the UG Krishnamurti guy......are you prosletising here again?

chownah
It is easy to take your position when communicating anything on a board like this. It is rife with misunderstandings and personal interpretations. What else is new?
It is easy to take my position here when what you post is unreasonable and unfounded.

Your non response to the Four Noble Truths is notable. Your attempt to change the topic to me being "rife with misunderstanding and personal interprettations" is obvious.

Your post runs directly in opposition to the Four Noble Truths as far as I can see.
Your post is a carbon copy of things you have claimed are the teachings of UGK as far as I can see.
Didn't UGK state that the buddha was just like the other gurus in the market place...offering false promises?.....I seem to remember a short video clip where he states this or something similar....I'll see if I can find it.

Again I ask you to give your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.
chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:28 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:35 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:18 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:10 am

About what you say:
It is only a belief. Someone told you that your belief is important. You don't know what exists outside of thought process....how could you know? You don't know if jhanas are important for other people....all that you could possibly know is if they are important for you....no need to project your own supposed conditions onto everyone else as there is no basis for doing this.

What you say seems to go against the Four Noble Truths. I would certainly be interested in hearing your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.

What you say sounds alot like the UG Krishnamurti guy......are you prosletising here again?

chownah
It is easy to take your position when communicating anything on a board like this. It is rife with misunderstandings and personal interpretations. What else is new?
It is easy to take my position here when what you post is unreasonable and unfounded.

Your non response to the Four Noble Truths is notable. Your attempt to change the topic to me being "rife with misunderstanding and personal interprettations" is obvious.

Your post runs directly in opposition to the Four Noble Truths as far as I can see.
Your post is a carbon copy of things you have claimed are the teachings of UGK as far as I can see.
Didn't UGK state that the buddha was just like the other gurus in the market place...offering false promises?.....I seem to remember a short video clip where he states this or something similar....I'll see if I can find it.

Again I ask you to give your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.
chownah
Perhaps you might start with what is unreasonable and unfounded in what I posted instead of 'demanding' my analysis in a thread that has nothing to do with the 4NT's. The thread is about jhana and its length of time, etc. If you want to challenge me on something, which you appear to be doing, maybe you should open a separate thread. We all drink our poison. Is it a matter of which one is more poisonous?

chownah
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by chownah » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:28 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:35 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:18 am

It is easy to take your position when communicating anything on a board like this. It is rife with misunderstandings and personal interpretations. What else is new?
It is easy to take my position here when what you post is unreasonable and unfounded.

Your non response to the Four Noble Truths is notable. Your attempt to change the topic to me being "rife with misunderstanding and personal interprettations" is obvious.

Your post runs directly in opposition to the Four Noble Truths as far as I can see.
Your post is a carbon copy of things you have claimed are the teachings of UGK as far as I can see.
Didn't UGK state that the buddha was just like the other gurus in the market place...offering false promises?.....I seem to remember a short video clip where he states this or something similar....I'll see if I can find it.

Again I ask you to give your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.
chownah
Perhaps you might start with what is unreasonable and unfounded in what I posted instead of 'demanding' my analysis in a thread that has nothing to do with the 4NT's. The thread is about jhana and its length of time, etc. If you want to challenge me on something, which you appear to be doing, maybe you should open a separate thread. We all drink our poison. Is it a matter of which one is more poisonous?
I didn't demand.....again you are trying to change the subject from your post which it seems runs counter to the Four Noble Truths....what part of it you ask....pretty much all of it. The general message you are delivering seems to run counter to the Four Noble Truths.

You are obviously wanting to change the subject to me by mischaracterizing me as being demanding and challenging. I'm just discussing your post which is what is done on forums. If you don't want people commenting on you posts or questioning your posts then you probaby shouln't be posting.
chownah

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Zom
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Zom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:12 pm

I could say that your view is equally harmful to true dhamma, so let’s not do that and simply share our understandings of dhamma.
Yes the jhanas are required for transcendence but one need not concern themself with jhanas nor do they have to master any jhanas. One needs only simply observe that which presents itself from one moment to the next with a calm and equanimous mind when this occurs one is liberating their past self when a level of purification is reached trancendence will take place and jhanas will arise.
Equally? Hardly. Did you read SN 16.13? MN 64?

Saengnapha
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:10 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:28 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:35 am

It is easy to take my position here when what you post is unreasonable and unfounded.

Your non response to the Four Noble Truths is notable. Your attempt to change the topic to me being "rife with misunderstanding and personal interprettations" is obvious.

Your post runs directly in opposition to the Four Noble Truths as far as I can see.
Your post is a carbon copy of things you have claimed are the teachings of UGK as far as I can see.
Didn't UGK state that the buddha was just like the other gurus in the market place...offering false promises?.....I seem to remember a short video clip where he states this or something similar....I'll see if I can find it.

Again I ask you to give your analysis of the Four Noble Truths.
chownah
Perhaps you might start with what is unreasonable and unfounded in what I posted instead of 'demanding' my analysis in a thread that has nothing to do with the 4NT's. The thread is about jhana and its length of time, etc. If you want to challenge me on something, which you appear to be doing, maybe you should open a separate thread. We all drink our poison. Is it a matter of which one is more poisonous?
I didn't demand.....again you are trying to change the subject from your post which it seems runs counter to the Four Noble Truths....what part of it you ask....pretty much all of it. The general message you are delivering seems to run counter to the Four Noble Truths.

You are obviously wanting to change the subject to me by mischaracterizing me as being demanding and challenging. I'm just discussing your post which is what is done on forums. If you don't want people commenting on you posts or questioning your posts then you probaby shouln't be posting.
chownah
I'm not interested in bantering with you in any way, shape, or form. I said what I wanted to say (not to you, personally). I'm not here to arm wrestle. If I feel that something is not the case that someone puts forth, I might say something, like with Zom. Personally, I don't feel Zom is correct in this, but I am not upset with him posting his view whether it is backed up by scripture or not. You, otoh, seem to dislike what I post and feel it is not Buddhist or to your liking. I don't know why. If you have a personal grievance, you can pm me and settle it, maybe. I don't want to be involved with this kind of dialogue with you or anyone else.

As far as my background goes, we all have one. There is nothing very unique that I have to say and of course, it's all been said before. If U.G. has rubbed off on me, it's only natural, as I was closely involved with him for many years, most of my adult life. I find his take on things very close to what the Buddha's was, but said differently. And, he did say that the Buddha was pretty much like the others offering false promises, but he never disparaged his awakening. Depending upon your point of view, all teachers fall into this category including U.G. and he was the first to say it. He held nothing sacred, but that is a different discussion. Sounds like your not really interested in that, so.........

thepea
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by thepea » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:16 pm

Zom wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:12 pm

Equally? Hardly. Did you read SN 16.13? MN 64?
What exactly would you like me to read what is the point you were trying to make or what is your disagreement. it’s not really my style to post suttas, I mostly post from meditative experience and read suttas Rarely but if there’s something you disagree with I am very willing to discuss this in further detail.

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Zom
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by Zom » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:51 pm

What exactly would you like me to read what is the point you were trying to make or what is your disagreement. it’s not really my style to post suttas, I mostly post from meditative experience and read suttas Rarely but if there’s something you disagree with I am very willing to discuss this in further detail.
Ok, what I'm trying to say, is that I'm basing my statements upon what is said by the Buddha. And I don't know what basis your opinions have... maybe just personal preferences.

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cappuccino
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Re: Should you sit 12 hours to know that your are in first Jhana?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:54 pm

Jhana is very common and easy in the suttas. Because it means calm.

You merely need calm, to focus on impermanence.

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