Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Paññāsikhara
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Paññāsikhara »

Dan74 wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:
Dan74 wrote:This sounds like the classical Jungian project which has found its way into popular culture. The man reconnect with their Anima and women with the Animus. Jung's formulation (being the first) was pretty simplistic.

In any case I guess in meditation things come up and in facing them we become more balanced and well-rounded as individuals.

_/|\_
Haha! Sounds like you read the Conze article I referred to above!
No I haven't read it yet. But I have heard that Conze was pretty keen on Jung's ideas.

I found his writings in e-format sometime ago. If anyone needs - lots are very hard to find in book form - just ask.

_/|\_
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Annapurna
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

David N. Snyder wrote:These are all stereotypes of course and there are plenty of exceptions (that prove the rule :tongue: ) , but still an interesting topic.

Women are often associated with compassion, nurturing, mothering, and loving-kindness; two of the brahma viharas: metta and karuna.

Men are often associated with being more stoic, not showing their emotions, not crying, etc; two of the brahma viharas: upekkha and mudita.

So maybe, men are becoming more feminine, but women are also becoming more masculine, with the practice. Or maybe we are all becoming neuter. :tongue:
Ha ha ha....you crack me up, David! :lol:

Androgyn?

I like what you said. Makes sense.

Even though I think that crying isn't a weakness. It's a deficit if one can't cry.

The Dalai Lama has cried after a nun explained to him about how she felt about some particular discrimination as she perceived it.

And I don't consider the Dalai Lama as a wuss, but as a very strong man, with both masculine and feminine "virtues" in balance.
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Annapurna
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

Monkey Mind wrote:Ajahn Vayama reminded us in a podcast that we have all been men and we have all been women in countless previous lives. It is not so much that we are "male" or "female" in this life, but we have the capacity, and the history/ kammic energy for both.
Hi MM, I had mentioned something similar in my OP, as it is agreed, of course.
PS; I am aware of the sutta where 'form' is the issue and that you're stuck when you begin to classify...
:anjali:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Chris wrote:Why concentrate on masculine or feminine?
Spot on.

Cultivating the wholesome (generosity, loving-kindness, wisdom) at the expense of the unwholesome (greed, aversion, delusion) would be far more profitable.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

AdvaitaJ wrote:Annabel,

Not more feminine, but definitely more peaceful Speaking for myself, I am much less inclined to anger, much less prone to planning for conflict, and quite possibly, much less ready to deal with conflict should it arise. My wife has noticed the change in me over these past months and, on rare occasion, she says "Don't forget how to be a Marine." (I was in the Marine Corps in my youth and it made a powerful and lasting impression on me.)

Regards: AdvaitaJ
Thank you Advaita. I agree with you, it does make people more peaceful.

I was confronted with a person yesterday, who was provoking me, and obviously seeking an argument but she left smiling and satisfied.

I used right speech, and maneuvered her out. Buddhism surely helps pacifying people.

Peacefulness....

I think, since you speak of the Marine, the attempted terror attack in Detroit may have subconsciously influenced me, also a conversation with a Muslim friend who thinks Buddhism is for "children", all soft and nice and sweet, while in Islam you have "real men" who "know how to handle a sword and kill with it, if necessary....

And then look at what Islam holds ready for women...extremes, I think.

So, that said, if you look at those roles for the sexes, man is supposed to be a warrior, an authorititative father and family man, and women are supposed to sweet and receptive and obey and smooth over ruffled feathers.

Those are very specific roles still very much in the minds and cultures in many European nations, don't forget that, guys.

America for instance has a lot more aggressive women, as I can often see, and due to my upbringing, I am often appalled by what I find respectless to a man.

Sorry, is so.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

catmoon wrote:
Annabel wrote: It just crossed my mind.

In case we agree, that men in general, -with the exception of those Buddhist males who read this, of course,- tend to be more aggressive, tend to become physically violent more often , abusive, are more forceful, and women tend to be softer, more actively compassionate than men, then isn't a lot of spiritual cultivation about developing a bit more of the 'female' side in ourselves, the softer and more sensitive side?

This looks to me like an attempt to buttress the idea that females are superior and "own" spirituality. Very unhealthy.
It l looks to me right here that you read other intentions into my topic than intended by me, perhaps you will find projections came into the way, don't know...? :thinking:
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phil
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by phil »

Hi all

Sorry if someone's already referred to this (don't see a link) but here's a great sutta about not falling into the bondage represented by one's sexual identity.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Phil
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Annapurna
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

Chris wrote:Good post Kim. :smile:

Why concentrate on masculine or feminine?

What difference does being a woman make
When the mind is well-composed,
When knowledge is proceeding on,
When one rightly sees into Dhamma?
Indeed for whom the question arises:
"Am I a man or a woman?"
Or, "Am I even something at all?"
To them alone is Mara fit to talk!
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .olen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
Hello, Chris, thank you, your contributions are priceless, your knowledge vast.

Here, however, my point here was a bit different, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Sorry.

I tried to say it with this:
PS; I am aware of the sutta where 'form' is the issue and that you're stuck when you begin to classify...
But I'm inundated with work and couldn't specify anymore precisely, also relying on the Buddhists here to "get it" right. Hard task, apparently.

Let me try again, but if it's pointless to you guys, that's ok too.

My approach is more of a political amd societal nature, just like we discussed the problems of of cows kept in lactation, pollution, elections, and our role in that...

So, to make a long story short, I totally agree with that suttha you quoted, of course, and had hoped that became clear when I posted my PS.

I would rather discuss how we OVERCOME this our male or female "nature", caused by hormones,- which fact can hardly be discussed away, when you look at the special issues men have with their hormone induced "nature", -just look at the porn and masturbation threads, which are NEVER started by women, at least I am not aware of one.

The Buddha explained himself the special burdens women have to carry through a monthly menstruation, through pregnancy, nurturing and menopause.

So. Childrearing also reinforces specific roles, while exceptions to a learger or smaller degree are perfectly natural as well, of course, at least to me.

Now my point:

If we compare (now I found the word) if we compare religions and philosophies, Buddhism seems the most peaceful one.

Are there any wars led by Buddhists?

There are wars led by Christians and Muslims, right?



PS: I am also aware of the Amazons, just saying this because it is predictable that somebody will bring them up as up as a point to argue that women have warriorhood in themselves as well. Let's talk about what is common for the majority, and not get lost so easily in all the little details of exceptions. Ok? Thanks.

Let<'s keep to the majortity.
Last edited by Annapurna on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

phil wrote:Hi all

Sorry if someone's already referred to this (don't see a link) but here's a great sutta about not falling into the bondage represented by one's sexual identity.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,

Phil
Phil, I think it has already been mentioned, and is not the type of discussion I had intended, as I think this is agreed upon. But thanks anyway. :smile:
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by bodom »

I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions. All these labels you throw around, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, man, woman are nothing but conventions, labels. They do nothing but reinforce the view of self, conciet and arrogance.

"The things of this world are merely conventions of our own making. Having established them we get lost in them, and refuse to let go, giving rise to clinging to our personal views and opinions. This clinging never ends, it is samsara,flowing endlessly on. It has no completion. Now, if we know conventional reality then we'll know Liberation. If we clearly know Liberation, then we'll know convention. This is to know the Dhamma. Here there is completion." - Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by bodom »

Accepting, giving up, letting go — this is the way of lightness. Wherever you're clinging there's becoming and birth right there. There's danger right there. The Buddha taught about convention and he taught to undo convention in the right way, and so reach Liberation. This is freedom, not to cling to conventions. All things in this world have a conventional reality. Having established them we should not be fooled by them, because getting lost in them really leads to suffering. This point concerning rules and conventions is of utmost importance. One who can get beyond them is beyond suffering. - Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

bodom_bad_boy wrote:I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

:anjali:
"Women's superiority to men" is a fabrication of your mind, and a projection onto me, you are interpreting my words in a false way.

I certainly don't think that way and never have.

I suggest you take back your projections onto me.

While pointing at me, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I do think however that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

If you don't think Buddhism is the right path, what are you doing here...?
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by Annapurna »

Btw, could you reduce your avatar please? It makes it hard to read your posts.
If you can't do it yourself, I can do it for you.
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bodom
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by bodom »

Annabel wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

:anjali:
"Women's superiority to men" is a fabrication of your mind, and a projection onto me, you are interpreting my words in a false way.

I certainly don't think that way and never have.

I suggest you take back your projections onto me.

While pointing at me, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I do think however that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

If you don't think Buddhism is the right path, what are you doing here...?
You have clearly made my point yourself.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Post by DNS »

bbb,

Good quotes from Ajahn Chah. But didn't the Buddha say discard the raft (Dhamma) after we have reached the other shore?

Some clinging and choice of Buddhism over other religions is to be expected to get us on the Path and going on the Path. Once at the other shore, we can drop those conventions and speak more in terms of ultimate truth.
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