You just don't get it, eh? The above is a series of blanket statements based on artificially firming-up the considerably-vaguer stances of several contemporary academic Buddhologists. It is not a valid source of information outside of that academy necessarily at all.Circle5 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:09 amAbbhidhamma did not exist untill 3rd century. It did not exist at the first 2 buddhist councils. That is the end of the discussion about weather Sariputta transmited it or not. Sariputta was dead for 300 years for god sake.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm Certainly, if that person were an academic or if they were basing their appeals upon contemporary academic Buddhology.
But if I could offer a point-counter-point: perspectives rooted in EBT studies, however right or wrong, are perspectives rooted in the academy, specifically the academy of textual criticism. Perspectives rooted in traditional Theravada are not. In light of that I don't think one can 'honestly' call out a traditional Theravadin for being specifically academically dishonest. They and the academy are different things altogether.
Diversity among mods
Re: Diversity among mods
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Diversity among mods
Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pmCertainly, if that person were an academic or if they were basing their appeals upon contemporary academic Buddhology.
But if I could offer a point-counter-point: perspectives rooted in EBT studies, however right or wrong, are perspectives rooted in the academy, specifically the academy of textual criticism. Perspectives rooted in traditional Theravada are not. In light of that I don't think one can 'honestly' call out a traditional Theravadin for being specifically academically dishonest. They and the academy are different things altogether.
Re: Diversity among mods
I recall this point also being made in another recent thread, and I think it's worth thinking about:
Mike
In the other thread I noted that the Dhamma runs counter to various materialist and intellectual ideas, so it's worth considering whether we bring too much baggage from "the academy" to our evaluation of what is "True Dhamma".Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm But if I could offer a point-counter-point: perspectives rooted in EBT studies, however right or wrong, are perspectives rooted in the academy, specifically the academy of textual criticism. Perspectives rooted in traditional Theravada are not. In light of that I don't think one can 'honestly' call out a traditional Theravadin for being specifically academically dishonest. They and the academy are different things altogether.
Mike
Re: Diversity among mods
Baggage from "the academy", and from our specific culture of origin in general.mikenz66 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:09 amIn the other thread I noted that the Dhamma runs counter to various materialist and intellectual ideas, so it's worth considering whether we bring too much baggage from "the academy" to our evaluation of what is "True Dhamma".Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm But if I could offer a point-counter-point: perspectives rooted in EBT studies, however right or wrong, are perspectives rooted in the academy, specifically the academy of textual criticism. Perspectives rooted in traditional Theravada are not. In light of that I don't think one can 'honestly' call out a traditional Theravadin for being specifically academically dishonest. They and the academy are different things altogether.
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Re: Diversity among mods
I personally don't think the Abidhamma was originated as is traditionally believed. The difference between a buddhist and a nonbuddhist is that a nonbuddhist has no realistic place for reasonable doubt, while a buddhist has space for reasonable doubt that the story might be true.
2 cents
Añjali
2 cents
Añjali
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
Re: Diversity among mods
1) The language used in the abbhidhamma is from 3rd centuries after the Buddha.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:08 amYou just don't get it, eh? The above is a series of blanket statements based on artificially firming-up the considerably-vaguer stances of several contemporary academic Buddhologists. It is not a valid source of information outside of that academy necessarily at all.Circle5 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:09 amAbbhidhamma did not exist untill 3rd century. It did not exist at the first 2 buddhist councils. That is the end of the discussion about weather Sariputta transmited it or not. Sariputta was dead for 300 years for god sake.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:44 pm Certainly, if that person were an academic or if they were basing their appeals upon contemporary academic Buddhology.
But if I could offer a point-counter-point: perspectives rooted in EBT studies, however right or wrong, are perspectives rooted in the academy, specifically the academy of textual criticism. Perspectives rooted in traditional Theravada are not. In light of that I don't think one can 'honestly' call out a traditional Theravadin for being specifically academically dishonest. They and the academy are different things altogether.
2) The abbhidhamma was not recited at the first and second buddhist council
3) No sane person will ever claim it is as old as the suttas. Even the most fundamentalist abbhidhabamist will acept that it was created 3 centuries after the nikayas, only that he might like the book nonetheless.
There is one thing to like a book, another thing to claim the Bible was written in the time of the dinasours and that Abbhidhabamma was written 10 centuries before the Buddha. Such claims are simply stupid lies. Blame the academics or other smart people how much you want, there is no way you'll ever convince me the Bible was written by the dinasaurs or that abbhidhabamma was written during the time amphibians evolved into mammals.
Facts top opinions.
Re: Diversity among mods
This is very academically dishonest. Abbhidhabamma is fun to say, though.Circle5 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:35 pm1) The language used in the abbhidhamma is from 3rd centuries after the Buddha.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:08 amYou just don't get it, eh? The above is a series of blanket statements based on artificially firming-up the considerably-vaguer stances of several contemporary academic Buddhologists. It is not a valid source of information outside of that academy necessarily at all.
2) The abbhidhamma was not recited at the first and second buddhist council
3) No sane person will ever claim it is as old as the suttas. Even the most fundamentalist abbhidhabamist will acept that it was created 3 centuries after the nikayas, only that he might like the book nonetheless.
There is one thing to like a book, another thing to claim the Bible was written in the time of the dinasours and that Abbhidhabamma was written 10 centuries before the Buddha. Such claims are simply stupid lies. Blame the academics or other smart people how much you want, there is no way you'll ever convince me the Bible was written by the dinasaurs or that abbhidhabamma was written during the time amphibians evolved into mammals.
Facts top opinions.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Diversity among mods
It reminds me of: "I be da bomb."Coëmgenu wrote: Abbhidhabamma
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.