Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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smokey
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by smokey » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:12 am

I have talked with a Rinpoche via Facebook and when I asked him did he gain knowledge with Vipassana, he said a little bit. But that was few months ago.

rowyourboat
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by rowyourboat » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:38 am

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/bm7insight.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by Brizzy » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:06 am

TheDhamma wrote:
flyingOx wrote: And VERY rediculous on BOTH sides, if you ask me. In the Christian tradition, salvation is celebrated and expected to be proclaimed by all who reach it. Since it is something that they all are expected to reach, and because it was not out of something that they did, but rather out of submitting, they automatically see it as something humble. It's too bad that Buddhism didn't evolve that way as well. When you look at the Gotama Buddha and his earliest followers, they didn't have any objection to any kind of proclamation or find it something not worthy of talking about. Actually, they encouraged all who wanted liberation to see for themselves if it is true or not. New comers back in those days were lucky to have leaders willing to be examples by saying it like it was. Now days if a beginner has a question about whether he/she is getting it right are hushed into silence, and the leaders go hide in the dark. That is truly a sad situation if you ask me.
The answer is right in your post. For the Christians it is humble since they are submitting, not achieving anything. In Buddhism, it is not about submitting, but rather achieving, in Buddhism it is enlightenment. So it could not be humble to announce to the world that one is enlightened. In fact, it would be quite arrogant, because it may not be full enlightenment and even if it were, most would not recognize it, thus, an enlightened one would have not interest in proclaiming it.

The Buddha proclaimed his enlightenment, because the Dhamma had died out and he was 're-discovering' it and had to announce the re-discovery in a way that would be acceptable. I challenge you to find many instances of other monks during the Buddha's time (from the Suttas) who regularly proclaimed their enlightenment.
Hi

Not only monks but lay people like Citta would regularly explain their attainments. Citta explained - in a sutta I cannot readily recall that he did not believe in jhanas - because he had experienced them, and so had no reason to just believe. Many householders talk of themselves not having to be reborn again, in the sensual plane. It is only false claims that are to be censured. :smile:

alan
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by alan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:26 am

I gave up Vipassana because I found it to be a waste of time. Forget about "insight knowledge". Just concentrate, and then take it from there.

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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by christopher::: » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:41 am

smokey wrote:I have a question. Does anyone on this forum have any insight knowledge gained with vipassana? I know that the first insight knowledge is discrimination of mind and body, has anyone gained that knowledge? Please do state and describe your insight knowledge.

With Metta - smokey
I thought that rowyourboat's response to smokey's question was helpful. Perhaps i'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me that the question of " Does anyone on this forum have any insight knowledge gained with vipassana?" is quite different from "Are you fully enlightened?"
rowyourboat wrote:Hi Smokey

I know many many people who have gained this insight knowledge! It is the first one and not that difficult to gain insight into. You CAN do it with the help of meditation teacher who teaches insight meditation.

here are some clues:

moments of experiences are discrete, not continuous

every moment of experience contains a material component and a mental component

rupa: patavi,apo,tejo,vayo, nama: phassa, vedana,sanna,cetana, manasikara

the point of this insight is to understand that even a single moment of experience is made up of multiple mental and physical components- there by fracturing reality- actually seeing this, not just knowing

this is the first blow to breaking and dismantalling ignorance or avijja, hence letting go when all the reference points collapse and the drawbacks (adinava), the unsatisfactoriness is seen.

with metta
Yesterday I listened carefully and followed the instructions of Joseph Goldstein, from a 2 part dhamma talk about mindfulness and feelings. Much of the above became clearer, at the time, from those observations.

Today I have not been as mindful but I plan to go back to the Goldstein talks, and will continue practicing. Having some initial insight into the above is quite possible, imo, for all of us, if you have proper guidance and put the time in to observe mindfully...

Understanding this so deeply and completely that one lives continuously with such Mindfulness and Insight is a whole nuther matter....

:namaste:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

alan
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by alan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:51 am

Will any of this matter without a strong base of concentration?

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Ben
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by Ben » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:53 am

Understanding this so deeply and completely that one lives continuously with such Mindfulness and Insight is a whole nuther matter....
Well said!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

alan
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by alan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:03 am

I have no insights to reveal after Vipassana, and I would not recommend it to a friend. I found it to be a waste of time.

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cooran
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by cooran » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:12 am

alan wrote:I gave up Vipassana because I found it to be a waste of time. Forget about "insight knowledge". Just concentrate, and then take it from there.
Hello Alan,

You may like to read this article by Thanissaro Bhikkhu:
One Tool Among Many - The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by christopher::: » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:38 am

alan wrote:Will any of this matter without a strong base of concentration?
My own experience is it's impossible to be mindful without also having strength of concentration, simultaneously. Last night i didn't get enough sleep, had to teach this morning, have papers that need grading... Have not been able to muster much mindfulness or concentration beyond what is needed to complete such tasks.
Ben wrote:
Understanding this so deeply and completely that one lives continuously with such Mindfulness and Insight is a whole nuther matter....
Well said!
:smile:
Chris wrote: One Tool Among Many - The Place of Vipassana in Buddhist Practice
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for that, Chris.

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

alan
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by alan » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:52 am

Thanks Chris! That was an excellent article. It is bedtime here in the U.S., but I look forward to conversing with you later--goodnight!

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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by Sanghamitta » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:03 am

I have found Vipassana far from a waste of time. I learned first the Burmese method and then the more informal method taught by Ajahn Chahs community at Chithurst. It has been the basis of my Dhamma practice.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by Sanghamitta » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:21 am

Having just read the article linked to by Chris I would add that Vipassana forms the basis of my practice alongside Samatha, I too was taught to see them as complimentary and mutually supportive. I realise that I see Samatha as the default that needs no further comment. Vipassana still feels to me like something innovative, but thats just me I suspect .Thats the order in which I learned them.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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christopher:::
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by christopher::: » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:26 pm

Definitely, Sanghamitta, they go hand in hand... It seems like all the factors of skillful dhamma practice are inter-related and mutually reinforcing....

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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catmoon
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Re: Vipassana - Insight Knowledge

Post by catmoon » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:00 am

Hiya Smokey! You still around?

I stumbled into an insight the other day. For a brief moment I saw the extent of my mental obscurations. I was like floating into the air on a foggy day, looking down at the ground, and seeing where the clear spots were. I could see that attachment to this idea or that was obscuring the truth about things. Sadly, not the kind of insight that will do anyone else much good.

Funny thing is, just knowing there is a barrier and it's nature, does not permit seeing through the barrier. You still have to take the barrier apart.

Oh, one thing that might be useful fell out of this. When one is unaware of obscurations, it appears that vision is completely unobstructed in all directions. So the fog analogy isn't a very good one.

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