the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:47 pm

chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:04 am
Did I say that?....I think not.
Slander?
chownah
I didn't say you said that. I said that's the implication of what you said.

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:15 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:47 pm
chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:04 am
Did I say that?....I think not.
Slander?
chownah
I didn't say you said that. I said that's the implication of what you said.
I did not intend to imply that....and I don't think the implication is explicitly in what I said. What I said was:
chownah said: Any attachment to any dietary choice is harmful behavior.
and then to clarify the meaning I said:
to clarify his point chownah said: Any attachment of any kind is harmful behavior.
Then I asked, and I am asking again: Do you agree with the statement "Any attachment of any kind is harmful behaviour."?
chownah

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Stephen18
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Stephen18 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:51 pm

Must-read article by Bhante Sujato:

Why Buddhists Should be Vegetarian

ieee23
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by ieee23 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:19 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 pm
Since it's already there & not for you in particular.
The Buddha stated there are 5 kinds of wrong liveliehood, with one of them being "business in meat". There is no such thing as a business without customers. If you buy meat, you encourage more meat to be produced. Anyone who knows anything about economics will tell you that a supply will be created to meet demand. If you buy meat, then the meat is for you.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:52 am

buddha kassapa already said meat eating isnt a problem. not sure why this debate exists. should have like 2 posts
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chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:40 am

ieee23 wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:19 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:05 pm
Since it's already there & not for you in particular.
The Buddha stated there are 5 kinds of wrong liveliehood, with one of them being "business in meat". There is no such thing as a business without customers. If you buy meat, you encourage more meat to be produced. Anyone who knows anything about economics will tell you that a supply will be created to meet demand. If you buy meat, then the meat is for you.
If this is your view on it then you should certainly be eating no meat.....also....the same logic applies to the multitudes of animals destroyed with the typical commercial and chemical dependent agriculture. If you buy their products then you are creating the demand for them.....if you buy their products then those animals were killed for you.
Grow your own and buy organic.
If you buy organic then be sure to stay away from farmers who use manure. The manure comes from the production of animals for meat. If you buy produce from farmers who use manure then you are creating a demand for animals to be grown which are killed for meat...if you eat their products then the animals were killed for you.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:03 am

yeah right, meat eaters want to tell us we can't eat plants, and yet they eat everything, plants and animals, and have no problem with it, sounds like hypocrisy to me.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:50 am

DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:00 pm
The issue (in this thread) is whether eating meat violates the First Precept and in general, the consensus is that it does not.
Perhaps not, but if we choose to buy meat then we are expecting somebody else to violate the First Precept and do wrong livelihood. That seems like hypocrisy to me.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:50 am
DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:00 pm
The issue (in this thread) is whether eating meat violates the First Precept and in general, the consensus is that it does not.
Perhaps not, but if we choose to buy meat then we are expecting somebody else to violate the First Precept and do wrong livelihood. That seems like hypocrisy to me.
I think that most people buying meat do not have that expectation....I think it dosn't enter their mind at all.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:50 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:54 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:50 am
DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:00 pm
The issue (in this thread) is whether eating meat violates the First Precept and in general, the consensus is that it does not.
Perhaps not, but if we choose to buy meat then we are expecting somebody else to violate the First Precept and do wrong livelihood. That seems like hypocrisy to me.
I think that most people buying meat do not have that expectation....I think it dosn't enter their mind at all.
chownah
Well if it doesn't, it should!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

binocular
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:59 pm

seeker242 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:47 pm
I didn't say you said that. I said that's the implication of what you said.
You inferred it.
That's the difference between an implication and an inference.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Dinsdale
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:43 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:50 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:54 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:50 am


Perhaps not, but if we choose to buy meat then we are expecting somebody else to violate the First Precept and do wrong livelihood. That seems like hypocrisy to me.
I think that most people buying meat do not have that expectation....I think it dosn't enter their mind at all.
chownah
Well if it doesn't, it should!!
I think it probably should for a Buddhist who is serious about the practice of Right Intention and harmlessness.

"While you are performing a bodily act, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily act I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily act, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to affliction of others, or both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it."

— MN 61
Buddha save me from new-agers!

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:22 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:43 am


"While you are performing a bodily act, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily act I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily act, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to affliction of others, or both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it."

— MN 61
I think this sutta makes it very clear that if one sees eating meat as leading to affliction then one should give it up and if one sees that eating meat does not lead to affliction then one may continue with it.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:39 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:22 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:43 am


"While you are performing a bodily act, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily act I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily act, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to affliction of others, or both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it."

— MN 61
I think this sutta makes it very clear that if one sees eating meat as leading to affliction then one should give it up and if one sees that eating meat does not lead to affliction then one may continue with it.
chownah
Yeah, when you see eating meat is not leading to affliction, as in the killing of animals, you can go ahead and eat it. Unfortunately for you Chownah, eating meat always leads to the killing of animals, I don't know why I have to point this out, it should be quite obvious!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:34 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:39 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:22 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:43 am


"While you are performing a bodily act, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily act I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily act, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to affliction of others, or both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it."

— MN 61
I think this sutta makes it very clear that if one sees eating meat as leading to affliction then one should give it up and if one sees that eating meat does not lead to affliction then one may continue with it.
chownah
Yeah, when you see eating meat is not leading to affliction, as in the killing of animals, you can go ahead and eat it. Unfortunately for you Chownah, eating meat always leads to the killing of animals, I don't know why I have to point this out, it should be quite obvious!!
Eating of meat leads to the meat providing nutrients for sustaining the body. Killing animals leads to the killing of animals. I don't know why I have to point this out, it should be quite obvious!!
chownah

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