Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
Dharmasherab
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by Dharmasherab » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:17 am

"What Moderate Muslims?" article by ex-muslim author Ali Sina (author of Understanding Muhammad and Muslims)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/what-moderate-muslims/

"The Myth of Peaceful and Moderate Muslims" by Sujit Das (author of Islam Dismantled: The Mental Illness of Prophet Muhammad)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-myth-of ... e-muslims/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20152
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:24 am

Greetings,
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:02 am
Try this - Listen to the very first sentence of the clip. Is that first sentence factually correct or incorrect?
""So, someone thought it would be a great idea to bring in millions of Muslims from the Third World into Europe".

Factually correct.

Hillary Clinton embraces George Soros’ ‘radical’ vision of open-border world
Open borders

Mr. Soros has complained of national borders as an impediment to world ruling bodies.

He finances at least seven groups in the U.S. that promote open borders and mass immigration, according to the book “Shadow Party” by David Horowitz and Richard Poe.

WikiLeaks’ massive release of hacked campaign emails shows that in one of Mrs. Clinton’s paid speeches to bankers, she pledged to work for open borders. Her “dream” presumedly means that the southern U.S. border would be a conduit for untold numbers of immigrants.

“My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders,” she told a closed-door audience at Brazilian bank Banco Tau in May 2013.

Illustrating how far Mrs. Clinton has moved to the Soros position is a 2003 statement in which she said she was “adamantly opposed to illegal immigrants.”

Conservative bloggers say one of Mr. Podesta’s emails shows him explaining how illegal immigrants can vote by obtaining driver’s licenses and attesting to U.S. citizenship at the polls. Noncitizen voting in federal elections is against U.S. law.

Muslim immigration

Mr. Soros is a big proponent of bringing more Muslims into Europe and, by extension, to America. He views Muslim immigrants as a savior for Europe because of the continent’s low birthrate.

He has funded private groups helping Muslims enter Germany and other countries, and he wants Europe to borrow billions of dollars to pay for resettling them. He wrote in the Australian newspaper last year that Europe should bring in 1 million Muslim refugees per year “for the foreseeable future.”

Hungary built walls to keep out Middle Eastern refugees, fearing they would turn the country from its “Christian roots” into an Islamic state.

“This invasion is driven, on the one hand, by people smugglers, and on the other by [human rights] activists who support everything that weakens the nation-state,” said Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. “This Western mindset and this activist network is perhaps best represented by George Soros.”

Mr. Soros told Bloomberg News: “Our plan treats the protection of refugees as the objective and national borders as the obstacle.”

Mrs. Clinton said on CBS’ “Face the Nation” that she wants to boost President Obama’s mark of 10,000 Syrian refugees resettled in the U.S. in one year to 65,000 — a 500 percent increase.


Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:45 am

Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:02 am

Try this - Listen to the very first sentence of the clip. Is that first sentence factually correct or incorrect?
The sentence is "So, someone thought it would be a great idea to bring in millions of Muslims from the Third World into Europe". I would say that it is ambiguous and open to interpretation. Certainly, some people have thought that it would be a great idea; that includes some Muslim radicals and some Europeans open to accepting mass immigration. On the other hand, they are largely insignificant, and the implication that there is one influential person who made the decision to bring Muslims in is unfounded. But there have clearly been many people whose policies and practices and ideologies have led to there being millions of Muslims from the Third World in Europe. There are currently about 27 million Muslims in Europe, and (depending on definitions one uses) many of them originated in the Third World. So it could be said that many people were OK with that numbers of Muslims, or had no thought for the consequences of their policies, practices, and ideologies.

User avatar
Kusala
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by Kusala » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:53 am

paul wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:32 pm
:goodpost:
alfa wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:48 pm
Everything changes, becomes something else. This is Buddhism 101.

Nothing stays the same - not the individual, not things, certainly not countries and cultures.

Society is not some fixed, static thing. Not a stone but a river.

People are being alarmist with respect to what is really a natural phenomenon.
These alarmist posts display a reactive response fixed on a view from the past “sensing no change in the changing” (AN 4:49) , and indicate a general inability to detect impermanence. This is one of the perversions (vipallasa). “ The characteristic of impermanence does not become apparent because when rise and fall are not given attention, it is concealed by continuity,” (Vism. XXI, 3). The remedy for this is the contemplation of the cycle of impermanence in materiality, particularly in nature and in the human body (both internally and externally), bearing in mind that the primal tendency is towards the ‘ripe’ section of the cycle, so this must be countered by intentionally focusing on the dissolution phase, i.e. ageing, sickness and death. The cycle is slow in materiality and quick in mentality, that's why it's preferable to focus on materiality, and why the first foundation of mindfulness is the body (meaning materiality generally).

Dalai Lama: Germany cannot become an Arab country

https://www.politico.eu/article/dalai-l ... s-muslims/

Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2937
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by robertk » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:48 am

Living in the Gulf and having many Arab friends I have to say, by and large, I find their sensibilities, humor, and way of doing things pretty much in tune with mine.

Abortion is illegal, they are respectful of women, travel incessantly, love big cars, donate to the poor, have lovely manners reminiscient of an older time, and almost idolize America. In fact they are close in many ways to conservative Americans in thinking.

Immgration is practically non- existent, which is a pity but then again it does have huge advantages for the indigenous population.

Freedom of press is much less than in the West but nothing like the rigidly controlled press in Buddhist Thailand: where linking to a BBC article has put a man in jail. And where a historian is under investigation for casting doubt on a King's heroics ( that happened 400 years ago).

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:24 pm

robertk wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:48 am
Living in the Gulf and having many Arab friends I have to say, by and large, I find their sensibilities, humor, and way of doing things pretty much in tune with mine.

Abortion is illegal, they are respectful of women, travel incessantly, love big cars, donate to the poor, have lovely manners reminiscient of an older time, and almost idolize America. In fact they are close in many ways to conservative Americans in thinking.

Immgration is practically non- existent, which is a pity but then again it does have huge advantages for the indigenous population.

Freedom of press is much less than in the West but nothing like the rigidly controlled press in Buddhist Thailand: where linking to a BBC article has put a man in jail. And where a historian is under investigation for casting doubt on a King's heroics ( that happened 400 years ago).
You make some extremely welcome points which I have also found to be true, both when I was living in the Middle East, and also of Muslims here in my country. There are some people who are concerned about Islamic immigration because they simply don't like to be around those with a different culture. But there are also those who value individuals from various minority cultures as friends and fellow-citizens, yet are still rightly concerned about the effects of large-scale migration upon their own country, culture, and environment. I put myself in this latter category. I think it would be extremely reckless for the UK to allow current levels of immigration, as it would cause damage to the environment and possible structural economic problems in the future. Other things being equal, I would on environmental and economic grounds be happy for an influx of people with a different culture to occur, providing a similar number of indigenous Brits leave; we would have sustainable net migration levels. In addition, though, I also think I need to take into account the feelings of my compatriots who don't want to live near Muslims or other minorities. I might not share their views, but I wouldn't discount them.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3374
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by Mr Man » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:19 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:24 am
Greetings,
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:02 am
Try this - Listen to the very first sentence of the clip. Is that first sentence factually correct or incorrect?
""So, someone thought it would be a great idea to bring in millions of Muslims from the Third World into Europe".

Factually correct.

Hi Paul
So you think the video was referring to George Soros and he has been responsible for bringing millions of Muslims from the Third World into Europe. And every so often, from within those communities that George Soros brought into Europe, someone comes forward to kill innocent Europeans. Okay.

The Farage video seems totally off topic. Maybe you need to start a new topic for Soros intrigue.

chownah
Posts: 7583
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:54 pm

According to http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... in-europe/:
Between mid-2010 and mid-2016,
1. An estimated 2.5 million Muslims came to Europe for reasons other than seeking asylum, such as for employment or to go to school.
2. About 1.3 million more Muslims received (or are expected to receive) refugee status, allowing them to remain in Europe.
3. Among European Muslims, there were 2.9 million more births than deaths.
4. The average Muslim woman in Europe is expected to have 2.6 children, a full child more than the average non-Muslim woman (1.6 children).

So.....the number of muslim immigrants entering europe for employment or education was almost twice the number of refugees in that period.

So.....it seems that the increase of the muslim population caused by births in excess of deaths was increasing the muslim population at twice the rate that refugees were increasing the population.

And....it seems that even if ALL muslim immigration stops completely the muslim population will increase at a much faster rate than the non-muslim population if the birth statistics for that period characterize what will happen in the future.

chownah

User avatar
L.N.
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by L.N. » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:10 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:24 am
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:02 am
Try this - Listen to the very first sentence of the clip. Is that first sentence factually correct or incorrect?
""So, someone thought it would be a great idea to bring in millions of Muslims from the Third World into Europe".

Factually correct.

Hillary Clinton embraces George Soros’ ‘radical’ vision of open-border world

...
Factually incorrect. The quoted article from the conservative Washington Times is an opinion piece, not intended to be an unbiased news report. Vilifying George Soros is a hallmark of the alt-right movement.
Read this article if interested. From the article:
The Australian Conservatives are just the latest group to invoke the figure of George Soros as the shadowy string-puller behind the fight for marriage equality.

Sifting through the lurid Islamophobic and homophobic images on the group’s car crash of a Facebook page, you can find a meme urging the group’s supporters to “Stop the Globalist Agenda: Vote No”.
The backlash to Muslims now is due in part to the upheaval in Syria and surrounding area, which led to a massive exodus of men, women and children (who happen to be Muslims). This social reality was forced upon the world, and some nations were more open to helping the refugees than others. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20152
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:13 pm

Greetings,
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:19 pm
The Farage video seems totally off topic. Maybe you need to start a new topic for Soros intrigue.
It's very much on topic, because it draws attention to how George Soros, through the use of his foundations etc. buys out corrupt politicians in both the U.S. and Europe, and pays them to do his bidding on these matters... including the mass immigration of Muslims into Europe & US.
The [Hungarian] Prime Minister has been vocal that he too thinks that the billionaire has a plan to force Hungary to accept more migrants.

His anger comes despite Mr Soros once funding a scholarship for him in 1989.

Mr Orban’s stance has gone down well with voters, and Fidesz is firmly ahead in opinion polls.

The Hungarian Prime Minister said EU officials will implement the alleged plan because they “eat from Soros’ hand”.

(source)
Meanwhile, in the U.S., courtesy of Wikileaks... (trigger warning: CNN says you're not allowed to read this)

Image

And as per the earlier article, Hillary Clinton's position on immigration radically changed from 2003 to 2013. I wonder why?...

Image

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

paul
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: Vietnam

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by paul » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:29 pm

Kusala wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:53 am
Dalai Lama: Germany cannot become an Arab country

“The demographic landscape in the United States is changing on par with the postwar baby boom, with a longer-range impact on the US business environment. Today, in many places, including the densely populated states of California and Texas, non-Hispanic whites are in the minority. In less than 25 years, minorities, collectively, are likely to be the majority.”
http://www.esri.com/library/brochures/p ... th.pdf2012

I’m speaking in terms of the long term trend, the Anthropocene is a millennial-scale influence, yet already the movement toward a diverse population is observable as shown above. In the long term this tide will spread globally, including Europe and Asia. There will be conflict in the short term when sudden influxes of minorities are experienced as balanced growth is established, and this is is what the Dalai Lama is responding to, but overall, the global trend towards more diverse populations, mixing idiosyncratic views, living within the border of one country, will become the future demographic.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... eneration/

etc.
Last edited by paul on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2464
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Muslims, Islam and Europe

Post by manas » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:59 pm

alfa wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:48 pm
Everything changes, becomes something else. This is Buddhism 101.

Nothing stays the same - not the individual, not things, certainly not countries and cultures.

Society is not some fixed, static thing. Not a stone but a river.

People are being alarmist with respect to what is really a natural phenomenon.
Except that, under current European governance, one is free to practice any, or no religion, whereas under Islamic law, this isn't the case. It is not Muslims that are the problem of course, but the religion they cling to, that could become a serious issue.
Drinking the nourishment,
the flavor,
of seclusion & calm,
one is freed from evil, devoid
of distress,
refreshed with the nourishment
of rapture in the Dhamma.

- Dhp 205

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20152
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:07 pm

Greetings,

It has been correctly identified above that the "upheaval in Syria and surrounding area" is a cause for the massive influx of Muslims into Europe... but that wouldn't have anything to do with external influences, would it? Someone wouldn't dare try to influence and engineer both the supply and demand of Muslim immigrants to further their own agenda, would they? No, surely not?...

How George Soros Is Playing Both Ends Of The Syrian Refugee Chaos

George Soros, the hedge fund speculator turned self-proclaimed philanthropist, and his tax-exempt foundations, are an integral part of that pre-emptive war machine.
Soros’ Syria NGOs Beat War Drums

The cynicism of the Soros call for the EU taxpayers to step up to the plate and accept millions of new refugees, to fly them in without papers, and more, is clear when we look at the same Soros-financed network of NGOs active in Syria trying to create the propaganda background to get acceptance of yet another US “No Fly Zone” over Syria as was done against Iraq after 1991 and against Libya in 2012 to bomb those countries back to the stone age.

One of the key online advocates for a US-UK “No Fly Zone” over Syria, something the Russian intervention since September 30 has de facto blocked, is an organization known as Avaaz. Avaaz was given initial financial support by Soros’ foundation in 2007 to promote key policies suitable to the US State Department. They cite Soros’ Open Society foundation as their foundation partner. Avaaz played a key role promoting the 2011 No Fly Zone in Libya that introduced a regime of terror and chaos in that once prosperous and stable African nation. Avaaz is now very actively promoting the same treatment for Syria.

Another Soros-financed NGO active demonizing the Assad government as cause of all atrocities in Syria and helping build public support for a war in Syria from the US and EU is Amnesty International. Suzanne Nossel, until 2013 the Executive Director of Amnesty International USA, came to the job from the US State Department where she was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, not exactly an unbiased agency in regard to Syria. As well, the Soros-financed Human Rights Watch has played a major role in falsely portraying ISIS and Al Qaeda civilian bombings and other atrocities as the work of the Assad regime, building support for military action from the US and EU.

The Middle East and other wars today including Ukraine are the product of the foreign policy doctrine set out in 1992 by then Defense Assistant Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, the infamous Wolfowitz Doctrine that justifies “pre-emptive” war, free from any oversight from the UN Security Council, against any nation or group of nations which threaten US “Sole Superpower” domination. George Soros, the hedge fund speculator turned self-proclaimed philanthropist, and his tax-exempt foundations, are an integral part of that pre-emptive war machine. Now Soros lectures the EU countries, above all Germany, on how they should receive the human fallout from the wars he and his cronies in the US State Department have created. That’s real Chutzpah, or perhaps it is really hubris.

F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.
The article is from January 15th 2016. I'm sure you don't need me to connect the dots for you to illustrate who was the head of the US State Department at the time...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4512
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:59 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:07 pm
It has been correctly identified above that the "upheaval in Syria and surrounding area" is a cause for the massive influx of Muslims into Europe...
Let's not forget the many other countries and regions which contribute to European immigration. Much of Iraq was unaffected by recent events in Syria. Afghanistan continues to be a huge contributor. So do Albania, Kosovo, and Pakistan. Many of these people might have been using chaos at borders to pass themselves off as Syrian refugees. In addition, British governmental lunacy in removing Gadafi in hopes of a "Pan Arab Spring" has opened up a route for Nigerian, Somali, and Eritrean migrants to cross the Mediterranean. A lot of this is economic migration, nothing to do with war.

chownah
Posts: 7583
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Muslims, Islam, U.S.A and Europe

Post by chownah » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:46 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:59 pm
retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:07 pm
It has been correctly identified above that the "upheaval in Syria and surrounding area" is a cause for the massive influx of Muslims into Europe...
Let's not forget the many other countries and regions which contribute to European immigration. Much of Iraq was unaffected by recent events in Syria. Afghanistan continues to be a huge contributor. So do Albania, Kosovo, and Pakistan. Many of these people might have been using chaos at borders to pass themselves off as Syrian refugees. In addition, British governmental lunacy in removing Gadafi in hopes of a "Pan Arab Spring" has opened up a route for Nigerian, Somali, and Eritrean migrants to cross the Mediterranean. A lot of this is economic migration, nothing to do with war.
Almost twice as many immigrants to europe from mid 2010 to mid 2016 were legal permitted immigrants who immigrated for employment or education compared to refugees.....and the birth of muslims of parents already in europe was more than twice the refugee immigration.

If europe stopped employment and education immigration they would greatly reduce the threat to their culture....but then who would do the work? Also, if they stopped these visas it would reduce the "brain drain" which occurs when europe lures the brightest and best to europe diminishing the human resources in the country of origin.

Promoting birth control more rigorously would help with the cultural dilution problem too. Treating people as equals and bringing them into society without prejudice would also help.
chownah

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Craig86 and 27 guests