There’s a notable Chinese monk who claimed that animals are fragments of people, i.e. one human can reborn as multiple animals, and vice versa, multiple animals merge to reborn as one human. He said that animals are stupid due to this ‘soul’ split phenomenon. This does not sound right though I could not prove it to be contradicting to Buddhism’s teaching. Anyone knows scripture references that specifically state that x number of human shall be born as x number of animals and vice versa, no more no less. Or references that explicitly deny such claim of multiplicity.
Thanks much,
YN
Animal Rebirth
Re: Animal Rebirth
Hello:
(MN 57)
"Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."
(AN 5.57)
"all beings are the owner of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related through their actions, and live dependent on their actions. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir.'"
You see, the dog ascetic was going to be reborn as a dog because of his actions.
And when he acted like a dog, it was also because of his actions and his views, not because of something else.
Regards.
(MN 57)
"Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."
(AN 5.57)
"all beings are the owner of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related through their actions, and live dependent on their actions. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir.'"
You see, the dog ascetic was going to be reborn as a dog because of his actions.
And when he acted like a dog, it was also because of his actions and his views, not because of something else.
Regards.
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Re: Animal Rebirth
I believe Hinduism has a concept like that of a soul splitting into many different beings. It doesn't sound compatible with Buddhism, because that concept would imply a soul that could be split. In Buddhism it is some sort of individual mind stream, no-self or not-self that is reborn, not something that could be split.
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Re: Animal Rebirth
The five precepts are human standards.
Acting less than that, you become less than that.
Acting less than that, you become less than that.
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Re: Animal Rebirth
In Indian Buddhism it wasn't necessary to assert unitarity because nobody was ever foolish enough to posit anything else. To claim that a unitary being becomes legion or that a legion of beings becomes unitary would render even the most elementary points of doctrine (e.g., ownership of kamma) unintelligible.Ydnan321 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:07 pm There’s a notable Chinese monk who claimed that animals are fragments of people, i.e. one human can reborn as multiple animals, and vice versa, multiple animals merge to reborn as one human. He said that animals are stupid due to this ‘soul’ split phenomenon. This does not sound right though I could not prove it to be contradicting to Buddhism’s teaching. Anyone knows scripture references that specifically state that x number of human shall be born as x number of animals and vice versa, no more no less. Or references that explicitly deny such claim of multiplicity.
attanā va kataṁ pāpaṁ, attanā saṅkilissati,
attanā akataṁ pāpaṁ, attanā va visujjhati,
suddhī asuddhī paccattaṁ, nāñño aññaṁ visodhaye.
By oneself alone is a wicked deed done, by oneself is one defiled,
by oneself is a wicked deed left undone, by oneself alone is one purified,
purity and impurity come from oneself, (for) no one can purify another.
(Dhp. 165)
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Animal Rebirth
LOL.... I believe the Buddha also said that you create your reality with the way you direct your thoughts. Thoughts turn into form. That is how the entire planet was born.2600htz wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:21 pm
"Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs.
Re: Animal Rebirth
It should be. There must be interlinks.BlueLotus wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:04 amLOL.... I believe the Buddha also said that you create your reality with the way you direct your thoughts. Thoughts turn into form. That is how the entire planet was born.2600htz wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:21 pm
"Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs.
Re: Animal Rebirth
Sorry, I’m still stuck on this, would be grateful if anyone could provide explanation stating why multiplicity of animal rebirths is not possible using scripture or well-known master’s accounts/references? Links would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
YN
Thanks,
YN
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Re: Animal Rebirth
Malunkyaputta, if anyone were to say, 'I won't live the holy life under the Blessed One as long as he does not declare to me X … the man would die and those things would still remain undeclared by the Tathagata.
And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life.
Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta
And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life.
Cula-Malunkyovada Sutta
Re: Animal Rebirth
A human shares most of its dna with other animals......you could then say that humans are made up of animals I guess...don't know for sure..........but what does it mean?
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Re: Animal Rebirth
In Dhammapada 37 a citta is said to be "singly-occurring". From this it follows that a mental continuum cannot throw out branches. One citta is followed by another citta, not by two simultaneously arising cittas.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Animal Rebirth
No stories of rebirth has even used the term aliens. Only from people like Billy Meier use terms like more advanced civilisation from outer space coming to teach humans. Not that i believe anything he said.
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Re: Animal Rebirth
When Prince SIddartha left the lay life he left his faithful horse Kanthaka at the river Neranjana. Here Kanthaka the horse is said to have died with a broken heart and was said to be borne in a heaven. When Lord budda attained enlightment this former Kanthaka and now a divine being had visited Lord budda several times to understand marga phala and has attained nirvana later.
This story reveals one thing which is that at times animals too are reborn in higher spheres and there are other similar stories too.
Re: Animal Rebirth
That i know. I remember there was a smiling pig story in a sutta. But if i am not wrong, I think animals do not go beyond desire realm.justindesilva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:01 amWhen Prince SIddartha left the lay life he left his faithful horse Kanthaka at the river Neranjana. Here Kanthaka the horse is said to have died with a broken heart and was said to be borne in a heaven. When Lord budda attained enlightment this former Kanthaka and now a divine being had visited Lord budda several times to understand marga phala and has attained nirvana later.
This story reveals one thing which is that at times animals too are reborn in higher spheres and there are other similar stories too.
Re: Animal Rebirth
This dna thing is very scientific stuff. But it will be impossible to directly relate it with rebirth mechanism in the sutta as the biology knowledge between the two eras is 25 thousands years apart.