Bhante, whose translation is this? [Edit: The translation is by I.B. Horner.] (Offtopic remark to the universe: I think this bad design on SuttaCentral, that the information about authorship for translations is so hidden that I don't even know where to look for it. [Edit: One can find it by clicking on the "hamburger menu" on the top left from the translation, and then on "Metadata" (which I still think is not easy to find)])Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:40 amThe Buddha never commends feeling remorseful, for remorse (kukkucca is a hindrance and always unskilful. The passage you allude to advises not remorse, but rather reflection on the nature of a mental action one has performed.Was this an unskilled deed of mind, its yield anguish, its result anguish? If you, Rāhula, while reflecting thus, should find: ‘This deed that I did with the mind was a deed of my mind that conduced to the harm of self and to the harm of others and to the harm of both; this deed of mind was unskilled, its yield anguish, its result anguish’, such a deed of your mind, Rāhula, should be confessed, disclosed, declared to the Teacher or to intelligent Brahma-farers so that, confessed, disclosed and declared, it would induce restraint in the future.
In all the other translations that I read there is this one notable difference in advice regarding mental unskillful deeds that deviates from the otherwise repititive enumeration pattern:
MN61, Thanissaro trans. wrote:Was it an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful mental action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should feel distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it. Feeling distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it, you should exercise restraint in the future.
MN 61, Upplavanna trans. wrote:When reflecting if you know, this mental action caused me, others, trouble. It is demerit and unpleasant. Then you should be disgusted and loathe such mental actions.
(Same with German translation by Kay Zumwinkel [Metthiko Bhikkhu] - which, I believe, is strongly oriented on Bhikkhu Bodhi's English translation.)MN 61, Nyanaponika trans. wrote:“If, Rāhula, when reflecting you realize; ‘Now this action that I have done by mind is conducive to my own harm, to the harm of others, and to that of both, hence unskilful is this mental action entailing suffering and productive of pain,’—such mental actions of yours, Rāhula, should be loathed, abhorred and despised.  Thus loathing, abhorring and despising, you should acquire restraint in the future.
13. Being a mental offence, Rāhula is not exhorted (as in the case of bodily, and verbal, action) to confess it to anyone.
The noteworthy difference is, as remarked in the footnote to Ven. Nyanaponika's translation, that regarding unskillful mental actions (thought crimes), the Buddha does not recommend confession or disclosure, but instead to feel abhorred and disgusted (and ashamed?) by it.
I think the translation on SuttaCentral is wrong. Maybe the translator (Ven. Sujato, I guess [No, I.B. Horner]) simply continued the repetitive pattern from before according to the same formula as for bodily and verbal actions, without checking the Pali for possible differences after that. I will inform them about it.
I think this is a very thin line to tread, between feeling ashamed, abhorred and disgusted, and feeling remorseful. Feeling ashamed, abhorred and disgusted by an evil thought that one had seems almost like a description of feeling remorseful about it. What is the exact difference here between these two?
What else could it mean to feel ashamed, abhorred and disgusted by a deed (in body, speech or mind) that one committed, than to feel remorse?
I had some questions about this topic here before, some years ago. If I remember correctly, Ven. Dhammanando mentioned some abhidhammic stuff about remorse being an example of "an unwholesome citta that can give rise to wholesomeness" or something like that. In light of such possibilities, could it not make sense that the Buddha recommended feeling remorseful in response to certain situations (actions one performed, by body, speech or mind)? (I'll have to look for that older thread.)