Global Warming: Recent Data

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:00 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am
... And Trump has appointed a bunch of climate deniers, climate ignoramuses and fossil-fuel-industry insiders and shills to every possible position in science and energy departments.
See, for instance, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... 959cf80a65, https://insideclimatenews.org/news/0911 ... nge-denier and https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-skeptics from late 2016. It has only gotten worse since then, but that initial lot came up first in my search.
And note that these were presidential appointments. How are they any less 'dictatorial' than Obama's executive order??

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Kim
Another one - very recent: https://thinkprogress.org/sam-clovis-no ... 186b08d0b/

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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:50 am

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:56 am
chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:46 am
He did not make an offer.....he just said he wanted to renegotiate....
On the contrary: he never said he wanted to renegotiate the agreement, but rather expressed a willingness to do so, i.e. he made an offer.
Trump gave notice that the usa would quite the accord at its first legal opportunity and then said the if the accord was renegotiated the usa might stay. This is not making an offer unless you are talking about him making an offer to quit the accord. Clearly the accord members did not want to negotiate a smaller contribution from the usa.....they also probably wanted to make it clear to trump that he is not the prima donna of world affairs that he thinks he is.
AS a result of trumps actions, china is taking the lead....china is now a world leader and the usa is becoming a has been....which I think over all is a good thing for the international community. Perhaps it will put the brakes on the bullying which the usa has promulgated ever since....ever since....a very long time.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 am

If the planet is under threat and you personally think it is, as you say, then your defence of Trump is quite weird. (I'm sorry, but I can't be any more polite than that.) Can you give us your reasons?
To begin with I don't consider Trump bashing a healthy activity, neither for oneself nor for society. He was duly elected President of the United States and his views ought to be considered without the incessant mockery and distortion that borders on dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to tolerance and the importance one places on the need to compromise for the sake of social harmony. As for climate change, President Trump has conceded that it is real, though he is conflicted about the impact dealing with it might have on the American economy. In his eyes the Paris Agreement was a bad deal for America, especially when considering the negligible commitments from China and India which pose the real threat to the future of the planet. Even outside of the accord the U.S. still continues to push for cleaner energy and is developing the technology to achieve that goal. It's no surprise that many are ambivalent about whether the U.S. is in the accord or not.

I think Nikki Hailey explains the Trump Administration's position well in her interview with Jake Tapper back in June 2017.

Nikki Haley admits that Trump believes the 'climate is changing'

The White House's willingness to release the National Climate Assessment without any sort of resistance is noteworthy, and should be commended rather than invite attack and condemnation from those who have come to politicize the challenge.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:18 pm

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

The White House's willingness to release the National Climate Assessment without any sort of resistance is noteworthy, and should be commended rather than invite attack and condemnation from those who have come to politicize the challenge.
The white house really had no alternative because.....:
wikipedia wrote: The National Climate Assessment (NCA) is conducted under the auspices of the Global Change Research Act of 1990. The GCRA requires a report to the President and the Congress every four years that integrates, evaluates, and interprets the findings of the U.S. Global Change Research Program (USGCRP);
...because it is manated by law.

I don't think that trump's upholding the law is commendable....on the contrary its just part of his job......he swore to uphold the laws when he took his oath of office didn't he?
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:17 pm

chownah wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:18 pm

The white house really had no alternative because.....:
The Democrats weren't so sure about that. The White House could have disputed the findings within the report, perhaps even legally challenging the mandate itself.

Democrats renew pressure on Trump administration not to suppress federal climate report

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:41 pm

pulga wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:39 am

If the planet is under threat and you personally think it is, as you say, then your defence of Trump is quite weird. (I'm sorry, but I can't be any more polite than that.) Can you give us your reasons?
To begin with I don't consider Trump bashing a healthy activity, neither for oneself nor for society. He was duly elected President of the United States and his views ought to be considered without the incessant mockery and distortion that borders on dishonesty. I suppose it comes down to tolerance and the importance one places on the need to compromise for the sake of social harmony.

I agree that "Trump bashing" is unhealthy, as is "incessant mockery and distortion" of his views. On the other hand, I think we have a moral duty to speak out against the evil and corrupt actions of those in power.
As for considering his views, I've done that (as much as anyone can discern them through his smokescreen of lies and evasions) and I have not been impressed at all.
As for climate change, President Trump has conceded that it is real, though he is conflicted about the impact dealing with it might have on the American economy. In his eyes the Paris Agreement was a bad deal for America, especially when considering the negligible commitments from China and India which pose the real threat to the future of the planet.
Look at his deeds. He has actively opposed and undermined Obama-era energy reforms within the US from the moment he took office. In that context, conceding that climate change is real is purely window-dressing.
Even outside of the accord the U.S. still continues to push for cleaner energy and is developing the technology to achieve that goal. It's no surprise that many are ambivalent about whether the U.S. is in the accord or not.
Correction: "The US" does not continue to push for cleaner energy or develop the technology to achieve that goal. Individuals, cities and states are doing that (and I applaud them for it) in the face of wholesale opposition from the US government.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Paris accord: Syria plans to join climate agreement, leaving US only country opposed


Syria has announced it intends to join the 2015 Paris agreement for slowing climate change, leaving the United States as the only country in the world opposed to the pact.

Syria, racked by civil war, and Nicaragua were the only two nations outside the 195-nation pact when it was agreed in 2015.

Nicaragua's left-wing Government, which originally denounced the plan as too weak, signed up last month.

"I would like to affirm the Syrian Arab Republic's commitment to the Paris climate change accord," deputy Environment Minister Wadah Katmawi told a meeting of almost 200 countries at the November 6-17 climate talks in Bonn, Germany.

Membership for Syria under President Bashar al-Assad would isolate the United States, the world's biggest economy and second largest greenhouse gas emitter behind China, as the only nation opposed to the accord. ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-08/s ... us/9128586

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chownah
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:25 pm

I don't recall this report being mentioned in this thread but I very well could have missed it. It was published a year ago. It is about a study of the errors in the climate science papers that the nay sayers use to support their views:
"Learning from mistakes in climate research"
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 015-1597-5
The Abstract:
Among papers stating a position on anthropogenic global warming (AGW), 97 % endorse AGW. What is happening with the 2 % of papers that reject AGW? We examine a selection of papers rejecting AGW. An analytical tool has been developed to replicate and test the results and methods used in these studies; our replication reveals a number of methodological flaws, and a pattern of common mistakes emerges that is not visible when looking at single isolated cases. Thus, real-life scientific disputes in some cases can be resolved, and we can learn from mistakes. A common denominator seems to be missing contextual information or ignoring information that does not fit the conclusions, be it other relevant work or related geophysical data. In many cases, shortcomings are due to insufficient model evaluation, leading to results that are not universally valid but rather are an artifact of a particular experimental setup. Other typical weaknesses include false dichotomies, inappropriate statistical methods, or basing conclusions on misconceived or incomplete physics. We also argue that science is never settled and that both mainstream and contrarian papers must be subject to sustained scrutiny. The merit of replication is highlighted and we discuss how the quality of the scientific literature may benefit from replication.
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:32 pm
Paris accord: Syria plans to join climate agreement, leaving US only country opposed


Syria has announced it intends to join the 2015 Paris agreement for slowing climate change, leaving the United States as the only country in the world opposed to the pact.

Syria, racked by civil war, and Nicaragua were the only two nations outside the 195-nation pact when it was agreed in 2015.

Nicaragua's left-wing Government, which originally denounced the plan as too weak, signed up last month.

"I would like to affirm the Syrian Arab Republic's commitment to the Paris climate change accord," deputy Environment Minister Wadah Katmawi told a meeting of almost 200 countries at the November 6-17 climate talks in Bonn, Germany.

Membership for Syria under President Bashar al-Assad would isolate the United States, the world's biggest economy and second largest greenhouse gas emitter behind China, as the only nation opposed to the accord. ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-08/s ... us/9128586

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Kim

Its not like signing agreements actually does anything... People need to stick to them, which they never will while some relative advantage can be gained by not doing so.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am
Its not like signing agreements actually does anything...
That's nearly true, but signing is a symbolic act, and symbols do have value.
Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:28 am
People need to stick to them, which they never will while some relative advantage can be gained by not doing so.
In this case, the 'relative advantage' is on the side of those who do act. Firstly because the sooner we act, the less it will cost us. Secondly because the people and countries who get in quickest will become leaders in the industries of the future. That's already happening, of course - look at what China is making out of its solar and wind manufacturing. :jawdrop: The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe, stuck with the oldest, dirtiest and least efficient industrial infrastructure.

Anyhow, smart people are pushing ahead with implementation of the Paris agreement -
The UN hopes to create an “operating manual” for implementing the Paris agreement on climate change, with talks in the next two weeks in Bonn.

“We want to advance further, faster, together to meet the goals set out in the Paris agreement,” said Patricia Espinosa, the UN’s chief official on the climate, at the opening of the talks. “We need an operating manual for the Paris agreement. This has to be the launchpad for the next level of ambition on climate change action, because we know the pledges [to cut emissions] made so far are not enough to take us to [meeting the Paris goals].”

...The EU is soon expected to set out its own progress on meeting its emissions-cutting target, and how it intends to ensure its 2030 target of a 40% emissions cut is met.

Discussions would also take place on climate finance, which involves ways of helping poorer countries to cut their emissions, Espinosa promised. She declined to give any targets on how much finance should be raised and where it should come from, but said the outlook was positive. “There is a very clear tendency going in the direction of green financing,” she said, referring to estimates that more money worldwide is going into low-carbon projects.

She also said the US delegation was present and taking a full part in the talks. President Donald Trump announced last summer his intention to begin the withdrawal process, the only country to have done so. Despite this, the US will be party to the agreement until 2020, as the the withdrawal process will take several years.

The UN said 169 countries of the 197 signed up to the Paris agreement had now ratified it.
More - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... is-says-un
More still - https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... conference

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:39 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
In this case, the 'relative advantage' is on the side of those who do act. Firstly because the sooner we act, the less it will cost us. Secondly because the people and countries who get in quickest will become leaders in the industries of the future.
Those are medium and long term advantages - and I agree with you that they are real advantages, and will deliver to those countries which pursue them.

But for as long as countries can increase their economic output in the short term, generate jobs, and raise standards of living (all of which is to say, bribe the electorate with wealth in exchange for votes) with short term tactics like building coal power stations, they will.

The UN hopes to create an “operating manual” for implementing the Paris agreement on climate change, with talks in the next two weeks in Bonn.

“We want to advance further, faster, together to meet the goals set out in the Paris agreement,” said Patricia Espinosa, the UN’s chief official on the climate, at the opening of the talks. “We need an operating manual for the Paris agreement. This has to be the launchpad for the next level of ambition on climate change action, because we know the pledges [to cut emissions] made so far are not enough to take us to [meeting the Paris goals].”

...The EU is soon expected to set out its own progress on meeting its emissions-cutting target, and how it intends to ensure its 2030 target of a 40% emissions cut is met.

Discussions would also take place on climate finance, which involves ways of helping poorer countries to cut their emissions, Espinosa promised. She declined to give any targets on how much finance should be raised and where it should come from, but said the outlook was positive. “There is a very clear tendency going in the direction of green financing,” she said, referring to estimates that more money worldwide is going into low-carbon projects.

She also said the US delegation was present and taking a full part in the talks. President Donald Trump announced last summer his intention to begin the withdrawal process, the only country to have done so. Despite this, the US will be party to the agreement until 2020, as the the withdrawal process will take several years.

The UN said 169 countries of the 197 signed up to the Paris agreement had now ratified it
This is all just talk, as people have been talking for years. Doing is harder than talking, which means people would rather talk about their 'intentions', their 'ambitions', their 'participation', but it's all just talk.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Kim OHara
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:49 am

And then there's this ... https://www.wearestillin.com/DayOfAction2017

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pulga
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by pulga » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe...
I kind of doubt that.
Prior to the building of more gigafactories (see below), Tesla may expand and potentially double the size of Gigafactory 1. In June 2015, Tesla announced it exercised its option to buy 1,864 acres (754 hectares) of land adjacent to the original 1,000-acre (400 ha) Gigafactory site. Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson. "The purchase gives us the opportunity for future growth."
Gigafactory 1

China is adept at taking advantage of such technology, but the U.S. will be the primary source for its development.

When it comes to coal -- which is clearly on its way out in the U.S. -- exports continue to soar due to Europe and China's insatiable need for fossil fuels. As even the left-leaning Reuters has the honesty to concede....

U.S. coal exports soar, in boost to Trump energy agenda, data shows

As a business man President Trump saw the Paris Agreement for what it is -- a dog and pony show, the sort of bureaucratic nonsense that means nothing in the real world. All of its "commitments" are "voluntary", which is a glaring reminder that the agreement is nothing but a symbolic act of little or no consequence.

Thankfully, even when it comes to coal, as the U.S. phases it out domestically it is investing in the technology to burn it more cleanly.

Natural Gas Plant Makes A Play For Coal's Market, Using 'Clean' Technology

Many environmentalists are against developing such technology, regarding it as counterproductive to expanding the use of solar and wind as our source of energy. But at this point in time solar and wind aren't viable alternatives to fossil fuels. The transition needs to be made, but it needs to be approached realistically and honestly. It's going to take time.

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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm


Thankfully, even when it comes to coal, as the U.S. phases it out domestically it is investing in the technology to burn it more cleanly.

Natural Gas Plant Makes A Play For Coal's Market, Using 'Clean' Technology

Many environmentalists are against developing such technology, regarding it as counterproductive to expanding the use of solar and wind as our source of energy. But at this point in time solar and wind aren't viable alternatives to fossil fuels. The transition needs to be made, but it needs to be approached realistically and honestly. It's going to take time.
I'm not sure why you brought this link. It is not about clean coal. It is about how clean coal is being abandoned I think. Here is some information about the problems which seem to be the death knell of "clean coal":
http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... UUnvFLVkNn
https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 5Gp9UC0NT-
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Re: Global Warming: Recent Data

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:17 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:18 am
The US is falling behind pretty fast and may end up in the position of Communist Eastern Europe...
I kind of doubt that.
Prior to the building of more gigafactories (see below), Tesla may expand and potentially double the size of Gigafactory 1. In June 2015, Tesla announced it exercised its option to buy 1,864 acres (754 hectares) of land adjacent to the original 1,000-acre (400 ha) Gigafactory site. Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson. "The purchase gives us the opportunity for future growth."
Gigafactory 1

China is adept at taking advantage of such technology, but the U.S. will be the primary source for its development.
Maybe china is doing more than you know about....here is an article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -batteries
which contains this:
As Elon Musk races to finish building the world’s biggest battery factory in the Nevada desert, China is poised to leave him in the dust.


Chinese companies have plans for additional factories with the capacity to pump out more than 120 gigawatt-hours a year by 2021, according to a report published this week by Bloomberg Intelligence. That’s enough to supply batteries for around 1.5 million Tesla Model S vehicles or 13.7 million Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrids per year, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.


By comparison, when completed in 2018, Tesla Inc.’s Gigafactory will crank out up to 35 gigawatt-hours of battery cells annually.
and this:
“This is about industrial policy. The Chinese government sees lithium-ion batteries as a hugely important industry in the 2020s and beyond,” Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst Colin McKerracher said.
While china has lith-ion batteries as a hugely important industry it seems that trump has coal mining as a hugely important industry.....hard to imagine that coal is going to be a hugely important industry in the future since it is so dirty in many ways and if it is found to be possible to clean it up (so far it has not been shown to be viable) that will surely increase its cost while there is still no end in sight for the lowering of prices for solar and wind.
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