list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

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perkele
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by perkele »

bodom wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:50 pm
Aloka wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:54 pmNot so easy to understand for people who don't have English as their first language.

:anjali:
Glad I could help.

:namaste:
Is not she who asked that an Englishwoman? But thou hast helped me.
:anjali:


The view of a mushroom cloud from 2 kilometers away. *smh*
Ariyapariyesana Sutta wrote:(Upaka the Ajivaka)
"'From your claims, my friend, you must be an infinite conqueror.'

(The Buddha)
  • 'Conquerors are those like me
    who have reached fermentations' end.
    I've conquered evil qualities,
    and so, Upaka, I'm a conqueror.'
"When this was said, Upaka said, 'May it be so, my friend, (*smh*)' and — shaking his head, taking a side-road — he left.


But... srsly... I think this thread here is a bit... *smh*
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L.N.
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by L.N. »

DNS wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:05 pmAll roads lead to Everest base camp, but from there, Buddhism is the only route to the summit.
Excellent point.
Some paths are going in the opposite direction, for example, those that advocate violence, especially against innocent ones.
Agreed. I am aware of no major world religion which so advocates, although ancient texts can be interpreted and/or misunderstood in a corrupting manner, and adherents of some faiths may misconstrue the religion which they purport to follow, even to the point of harming others.

From this page:
An identical account appears in Buddhism:

The blind of this world bear a heavy burden for past failure to tell the way clearly to travelers. Some people's mouths are very misshapen. They blew out lamps on the Buddhas' altars. To be deaf and mute is a dreary existence. Reward appropriate for scolding one's parents. How do people get to be hunchbacks? They berated and laughed at those bowing to Buddhas" (Buddhist Text Translation Society, n.d.).

Having been exposed to such texts, many Buddhists have a negative attitude toward the disabled. According to one survey of Japanese Buddhists, "68% of people with disability say they have experienced discrimination," and "the vast majority of people without disability feel that individuals who have a disability are treated like second-class citizens" (Stevens, 2013, p. 32). Sallie B. King reached a similar conclusion:

Popular understanding based on the idea of karma has provided a rationalization for people to turn their backs on the disabled.... This interpretation of karma has been so common that modern reformers in countries like Japan bitterly blame Buddhism for much of the super-added suffering of disabled people beyond the physical suffering directly caused by their disabilities—their rejection by society, their treatment as pariahs, and the lack of interest in helping them. (2009, p. 163)

Contemporary Buddhists feel embarrassed by the cruelty of the karmic doctrine and the subsequent ill-treatment of the disabled. Richard Louis Bruno, a disabled Buddhist psychotherapist, solved this dilemma by doing two quite different things. First, he disassociated himself from the basic concept of "karmic punishment" by writing that some Buddhists (unlike himself) "believe in reincarnation and say that what happens to you in this life results from the circling back of your own actions from previous lives" (Bruno, n.d.). Second, he collected quotes from a few disabled persons, some of whom share his opinion:

"I believe my accident (and its consequences) is a result of something I'd done (or didn't do), or because of something I didn't handle properly, in a past life. I now get another chance to 'do it right.'" (Bruno, n.d.)

"It is really unproductive to think about past lives.... We have more than enough to handle dealing with this one." (Bruno, n.d.)

"When we accept that everything animate and inanimate is 'already broken,' a physical disability—even a terminal illness—loses its abnormality. Actually, anything that is not broken, not 'disabled,' is really abnormal." (Bruno, n.d.)

Khun Kampol Thongbunnum expressed an attitude similar to these in a short poem:

Most people
Live in suffering
Without knowing
Only when happiness
Gradually fades away
That suffering
Shows its face
Then and there
Not perceiving suffering
One consequently fails
To find the way out
And to get rid of suffering
Once and for all.
(Thongbunnum, 2010)

I empathize with the pain and desperation of the disabled, and I applaud their use of a wide variety of psychological defense mechanisms to make their lives easier. The disturbing aspect of these statements concerns not the disabled, but the able-bodied, who learn to blame the victims for their plight and to feel not only physically but morally superior to them.
Even the most noble path can be twisted into something it it not.
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Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。
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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

hmm i tend to treat disabled people normally because they are normal, just disabled
a few different suttas come to mind
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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L.N.
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by L.N. »

Sovatthika wrote: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:18 ama few different suttas come to mind
I would be interested in reading them if you wish to post links or PM. Thank you.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
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L.N.
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by L.N. »

Sovatthika wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:27 am...
These are great, thank you! They still may support a "smh" view which some could interpret as justification to discriminate against the disabled, as none of these suttas suggests that disability is not due to some kamma.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。
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DNS
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by DNS »

L.N. wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:44 pm
Sovatthika wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:27 am...
These are great, thank you! They still may support a "smh" view which some could interpret as justification to discriminate against the disabled, as none of these suttas suggests that disability is not due to some kamma.
Correct, even though the leper became a sotapanna, the Buddha still explains the evil deeds he did in a past life to be a leper in that life.

And then there are the Vinaya rules against ordaining certain people which has a very long list of politically incorrect categories, including various handicaps (apparently for not burdening the sangha and lay people).

Apparently all religions have a history of discriminating against the handicapped and this is unfortunate. In defense of Buddhism (apologetics? possibly) there are some sutta references about not speculating on another's kamma-vipāka.
perkele
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by perkele »

DNS wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:30 pm In defense of Buddhism (apologetics? possibly) there are some sutta references about not speculating on another's kamma-vipāka.
Are there? (Apart from this quite general one?) None (which would be more specific) come to mind here. If you can provide a reference, that would be great.
I always saw this to be more or less implicit in the teachings, that smugly looking down upon or even joy at another's (kamically hand-crafted) misfortune is a very unskillful attitude which will reap its own rewards.

This sutta comes to mind: Duggata Sutta - Fallen on Hard Times (and contrasted by this: Sukhita Sutta - Happy)
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by DNS »

Yes, those are the ones I was thinking of.

And then there is also the practice of karuna (compassion).
perkele
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by perkele »

DNS wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:13 pm And then there is also the practice of karuna (compassion).
Right, this is central to the Buddha's teachings, and there is nothing in them which would condone mistreating someone for their misfortune, whether or not this misfortune is caused by previous kamma.
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

conversely, sympathy to the extreme
a self-respecting disabled person really doesn't want to be treated like a victim.
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

even if/when there is kammic retribution in the form of a disability it is only form and as such it is impermanent
it is not self
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
Garrib
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Garrib »

:thumbsup:
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

smh @ 'skillfully' breaking precepts
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
chownah
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Re: list wrong views that you might say 'smh' to

Post by chownah »

What is the sentiment in play when someone uses the term 'shake my head'?
chownah
edit: I just went on line and at the urban dictionary website it gave this:
Shaking my head: something you do when a person or thing is so utterly rediculous that you just nod in disbelief
Is this how it is commonly used?....isn't it usually #smh?
chownah
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