Taoism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Will
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Taoism

Post by Will » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:55 pm

Red PIne's 2009 revision of his 1996 Lao-Tzu's Taoteching may be my favorite. After each verse he give excerpts from traditional commentaries.

Here is verse seven:
Heaven is eternal and Earth is immortal
the reason they're eternal and immortal
is because they don't live for themselves
hence they can live forever
sages therefore pull themselves back
and end up in front
put themselves outside
and end up safe
is it not because of their selflessness
whatever they seek they find
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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B23
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Re: Taoism

Post by B23 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:52 am

Oh, how much I loved the Tao Te Ching. :heart: I still remember trying to learn all the book :smile: , but you know, memory just follows the Buddha's teaching, after a time it gets foggy just for later to die.
I have three treasures which I hold and keep.
The first is mercy; the second is economy;
The third is daring not to be ahead of others.
From mercy comes courage; from economy comes generosity;
From humility comes leadership.

Nowadays people shun mercy but try to be brave;
They abandon economy but try to be generous;
They do not believe in humility but always try to be first.
This is certain death.
http://www.daily-tao.com/
- Homage to the Worthy One, the Blessed One, the Rightly Self-awakened One!

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Kim OHara
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Re: Taoism

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:20 pm

My favourite version is by Man-Ho Kwok, Martin Palmer and Jay Ramsay for Sacred Arts - https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Tra ... 1852303220
It's a beautifully illustrated large-format paperback with both Chinese and English text (although the Chinese is mere decoration to me because I can't read it :embarassed: ). There are no commentaries but there is a substantial historical introduction.

Here's Chapter 7 for comparison:
Heaven and earth
are enduring.

The universe can live fore ever,
because it does not live for itself.

And so both last -- outliving themselves

The sage guards his people
by putting himself last

Desiring nothing for himself,
he knows how to channel desires.

And is it not because he wants nothing
that he is able to achieve everything?
:namaste:
Kim

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Will
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Re: Taoism

Post by Will » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:52 pm

A couple of traditional commentators on verse Seven:
HO-SHANG KUNG (d. 159 BC?) says,
The reason Heaven and Earth alone are eternal and
Immortal is because they are content and give without expecting a reward,
unlike Man who never stops chasing profit and fighting over possessions.

WANG PI (226-249 AD) says,
Those who live for themselves fight with others. Those who
don't live for themselves are the refuge of others.
Porter (aka Red Pine) gives short excerpts from 11 others on this verse.
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Taoism

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:09 am

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 11

Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;
It is the center hole that makes it useful.
Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there.

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu11.html


:yingyang:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Taoism

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:28 am

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 47

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know.

Thus the sage knows without travelling;
He sees without looking;
He works without doing.

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu47.html


Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 48

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less is done
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It cannot be ruled by interfering.

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu48.html


:sage:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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Kim OHara
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Re: Taoism

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:01 pm

Slightly off-topic but anyway ... Ursula Le Guin is a great fantasy and SF writer and most of her work has a fundamentally Taoist core. If you don't know her work but like Taoism, you could do worse than check it out.

:reading:
Kim

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Will
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Re: Taoism

Post by Will » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:01 pm
Slightly off-topic but anyway ... Ursula Le Guin is a great fantasy and SF writer and most of her work has a fundamentally Taoist core. If you don't know her work but like Taoism, you could do worse than check it out.
Kim
Not so off topic Kim, for she has her own Taoteching rendering too.

http://www.powells.com/book/lao-tzu-tao ... erid=25282
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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cjmacie
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Re: Taoism

Post by cjmacie » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm

Cheng Man-ch'ing, the TaiJiChaun master who came to the USA in the last century and taught the Yang style, wrote an interesting commentary:

https://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Words-Un ... 0913028916

(I couldn't find a free pdf of it.)

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Kim OHara
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Re: Taoism

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:17 pm

Will wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:38 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:01 pm
Slightly off-topic but anyway ... Ursula Le Guin is a great fantasy and SF writer and most of her work has a fundamentally Taoist core. If you don't know her work but like Taoism, you could do worse than check it out.
Kim
Not so off topic Kim, for she has her own Taoteching rendering too.

http://www.powells.com/book/lao-tzu-tao ... erid=25282
Thanks, Will - I didn't know about this. I will have to see if I can locate a copy ...

:namaste:
Kim

chownah
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Re: Taoism

Post by chownah » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:55 am

cjmacie wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
Cheng Man-ch'ing, the TaiJiChaun master who came to the USA in the last century and taught the Yang style, wrote an interesting commentary:

https://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Words-Un ... 0913028916

(I couldn't find a free pdf of it.)
In his prime:

chownah
Edit: If you want an excellent meditative exercise to take meditative absorption off the cushion and out into your daily life this is it. If you can find a teacher which teaches this style I highly recommend checking it out.
chownah

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aflatun
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Re: Taoism

Post by aflatun » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:00 am

chownah wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:55 am
cjmacie wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
Cheng Man-ch'ing, the TaiJiChaun master who came to the USA in the last century and taught the Yang style, wrote an interesting commentary:

https://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Words-Un ... 0913028916

(I couldn't find a free pdf of it.)
In his prime:

chownah
Edit: If you want an excellent meditative exercise to take meditative absorption off the cushion and out into your daily life this is it. If you can find a teacher which teaches this style I highly recommend checking it out.
chownah
:goodpost:

I have always wanted to learn this. If you can recommend a legit teacher in my area chownah, I'm on it ;)
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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cjmacie
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Re: Taoism

Post by cjmacie » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:38 am

chownah wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:55 am
cjmacie wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
Cheng Man-ch'ing, the TaiJiChaun master who came to the USA in the last century and taught the Yang style, wrote an interesting commentary:

https://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Words-Un ... 0913028916

(I couldn't find a free pdf of it.)
In his prime:

chownah
Edit: If you want an excellent meditative exercise to take meditative absorption off the cushion and out into your daily life this is it. If you can find a teacher which teaches this style I highly recommend checking it out.
chownah
Many thanx for that... 30 years ago I studied that form, with Abraham Liu, one of Cheng's principle students. Been thinking lately of going back to it...

chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Taoism

Post by chownah » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:21 pm

aflatun wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:00 am


I have always wanted to learn this. If you can recommend a legit teacher in my area chownah, I'm on it ;)
I can't recommend a teacher but you could ask here:
https://www.taichichuan.org/about-the-n ... chi-chuan/
chownah

auto
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Re: Taoism

Post by auto » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:31 pm

Learn I ching, do qi gong

But there is also internal alchemy where it doesn't matter if you are budhist or taoist or some egyptian sect.
You can take teachings personally and want to make it happen, labels come secondary importance. Even possibilities what where nonsense like there would be a secret pill or medicine what makes you immortal will start to make sense how it would be possible.

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