No it says, empty of a self.
the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
Same thing. If the world is empty of a self, then there is no self in the world.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
Yes, that's exactly right. But, nirvana is not annihilation. This would be nihilism and an erroneous belief in what the teachings are saying. The Buddha constantly reiterates the point of not discerning anything apart from dependent origination as an alternative position. That is called emptiness which is neither self or not self, and so on.cappuccino wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:30 am but if nirvana is annihilation, you would be insane to seek it
rather this teaching should lead to sanity
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
The difference is subtle.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:20 amSame thing. If the world is empty of a self, then there is no self in the world.
You fail to appreciate the difference.
Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
You may think it is the same thing but yet the sunna sutta does not clearly say no self as you have stated. Did you make a mistake?....or do you want to continue to dispute what the sunna sutta clearly says?Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:20 amSame thing. If the world is empty of a self, then there is no self in the world.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
There is no practical difference.cappuccino wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:37 pmThe difference is subtle.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:20 amSame thing. If the world is empty of a self, then there is no self in the world.
You fail to appreciate the difference.
The Sunna Sutta says the world is empty of a self or anything pertaining to the world. So are you proposing a self outside the world? If so, some sutta support for this view would be useful.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
Again the difference is subtle.
And the difference must be appreciated.
And the difference must be appreciated.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
If you really think there is a practical difference, then explain it clearly what it is.cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:03 pm Again the difference is subtle.
And the difference must be appreciated.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
You are avoiding a straightforward question ( again ).cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:19 pm On Self, No Self, and Not-self
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
The Sunna Sutta says: "the world is empty of a self, or anything pertaining to a self". What is the practical difference between that and "there is no self in the world"?
If you are proposing a self outside the world, then lets see some sutta passages which specifically support that view.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
If Buddha cannot help you, I cannot.
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
There are three views. Self, no self, not-self.
Among those three, self and no self are extreme views.
Not-self is a middle view, between the extremes.
Among those three, self and no self are extreme views.
Not-self is a middle view, between the extremes.
Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
The difference between saying there is no self and saying that everything I think of is not self is that it is possible for you to observe what you think of and determine that it is not self....your range of what you think of only includes the things you think of and it does not include the things which you do not think of. The things you do not think of are things which are out of range so it is not possible for you to determine if they are self or not.
IN summary: determening that there is no self is beyond range....determeing that you can not think of something which is self is within range since you can simply just sit and think of things and verify that you can not think of something which is self.
Not very artfully expressed and probably technically incorrect but I hope you get the idea.
chownah
IN summary: determening that there is no self is beyond range....determeing that you can not think of something which is self is within range since you can simply just sit and think of things and verify that you can not think of something which is self.
Not very artfully expressed and probably technically incorrect but I hope you get the idea.
chownah
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Re: the great Nibbana = annihilation, eternal, or something else thread
Do not speak thus. Do not misrepresent the Blessed One; for it is not good to misrepresent the Blessed One.