Zom wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:53 am
Also, there is nothing that says that the concentration cultivated by a Sunlun style of initial strong breathing cannot be used to do the practices outlined MN 118 once the initial strong breathing exercise is stopped and breathing normally is resumed. As the “normal” breathing resumes after a period of the cultivation of concentration via deliberate strong breathing one finds “'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication'” is pretty much already in place.
Yes, but in this case you can do anything - powerlifting, jogging, whatever. And then sit to meditate.
I have done jogging, running, powerlifting and whatever including distance target shooting (300 yards/274.32 m with a .45-70 open-sight rifle). I suppose one could meditate after these activities, but as I said, context and intention are what is key here. While the running and other physical activities can be extremely focused, there is still a considerable amount of other mental activities necessarily at play because there is a considerable amount of various physical activities at play in their execution. These sports activities are not quite the same nor as singular in focus as is one’s focusing on one’s breathing in a seated position in the context and intention of doing a meditative practice. Simply, in the Sunlun method the strong breathing is a preliminary practice in a context and intention of mindfulness meditation.
But this is not a part of anapanasati method.
MN 118 states
MN 118 wrote:“Here a bhikkhu, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty hut, sits down; having folded his legs crosswise, set his body erect, and established mindfulness in front of him, ever mindful he breathes in, mindful he breathes out.
“Breathing in long, he understands: ‘I breathe in long’; or breathing out long, he understands: ‘I breathe out long.’ Breathing in short, he understands: ‘I breathe in short’; or breathing out short, he understands: ‘I breathe out short.’
“Ānāpānasati method”? Whose interpretation? I see nothing in the MN 118 that says anything about the rate of one’s breathing. While doing the strong breathing preliminary practice, if the practitioner “Breathing in long, he understands: ‘I breathe in long’; or breathing out long, he understands: ‘I breathe out long.’
, which is very much part of the preliminary practice, if the practitioner understands
, as the sutta states, he becomes ardent, alert, & mindful
. Where is the problem? Let us keep in mind, that the strong breathing practice is only a preliminary part of the practice that helps cultivate concentration and attention – that is to say: ardency, alertness, & mindfulness
which is carried into the core practice of the sitting meditation which could be found in MN 118 or MN 10 or any one of the other meditation discourses.
"Breath exercises have nothing to do with viriya or sati.
Zom wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:29 pm
These qualities are based entirely on faith (saddha), wisdom (pannya), rightviews (sammaditthi), and an urge to practise (samvega)
That's only one part of the sutta. It also speaks of arousing mindfulness and energy (viriya) - and it doesn't really explain how, this is just as good a method as any other to arouse vigor.
. Breath exercises have nothing to do with viriya or sati. Nowhere, neither in suttas nor in commentaries, you can find even a hint about forcing a breath. So, this is entirely speculative, non-buddhist thing.
” In and of themselves, no, “Breath exercises have nothing to do with viriya or sati,” but in the context of the intention and the knowledge of the practitioner, the Sunlun practice obviously can be a useful tool in cultivating saddhā, viriya, and sati.
As for what is not found in the suttas and commentaries, one can find in the teachings of Ven Thanissaro, for example, a lot of differing things to aid one’s practice that are not found in the suttas or commentaries, but they work in helping the student learn, see, gain confidence – saddhā – etc.