What is it that clings?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
being5
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by being5 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:17 am

Listening again to Bhikkhu Bodhi's 'The Nature of Existence' from "The Buddha's Teaching As It Is"
http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/about- ... it-is.html

and contemplating the many helpful replies in this thread, my intention now is to return to the teacup of life and allow things to steep.....

Thankyou everyone for your replies.

being5

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christopher:::
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by christopher::: » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:32 am

being5 wrote:Listening again to Bhikkhu Bodhi's 'The Nature of Existence' from "The Buddha's Teaching As It Is"
http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/about- ... it-is.html

and contemplating the many helpful replies in this thread, my intention now is to return to the teacup of life and allow things to steep.....


Thankyou everyone for your replies.

being5
:namaste:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

being5
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by being5 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:50 am

The teabag has been steeping, the practice has been continuing and last week a Dhamma talk by Ajahn Sucitto helped further towards an answer to the question "What is it that clings?". I post the link here for those who might also find it helpful.

The particular talk is "No End In Sight!" (but I could recommend every talk I have so far heard from this list.)

http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/index.php ... &Itemid=70

being5

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acinteyyo
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by acinteyyo » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:39 am

Hi,

I don't understand this question. Do you think there is a "thing" which actually clings to something?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

dhamma follower
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by dhamma follower » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:13 am

being5 wrote: So, in terms of each discrete momentary arising of the five aggregates and consciousness (is the word citta?) what is it that clings instead of letting it rise and fall -what, exactly, grabs on?

thanks
being5
Dear being5,

Reality arises and falls away no matter there is clinging or not. The difference is, when there is clinging, rise and fall is not perceived, or in other words, things are not seen as they are.

So, if what is implied in your question is to find a way to catch the clinging, iom what actually needs to be looked at, is not the clinging it-self, but its very origine : delusion, ignorance (moha, avija), as suggested in Dependent Originations. Delusion is the cause, clinging is the effect.

For exp, as you are reading these lines, if there is awareness of the reading, with understanding that "reading is happening", as well as all subsequent thoughts and feelings as just thoughts and feelings, or better still, the understanding of the cause of thoses thoughts and feelings - seeing the whole process as just a process, no person...then clinging can not occur.

That's how I understand it .

D.F

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catmoon
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by catmoon » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:58 am

If nobody plays a guitar, there is no sound.
If no one kicks a ball, there is no game.
If nobody clings, there is no clinging.

It is the person that clings, but the person is not what he appears to be.


Hmm. I just made that up, but it looks ok to me. So far.
Counter points, anyone?

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Ben
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by Ben » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:27 am

Dear being5

That which clings?
-- an interesting question!

I am reminded of something Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote on sankhara:
Sankhara is derived from the prefix sam (=con), "together", and the verb karoti, "to make". The noun straddles both sides of the active-passive divide. Thus sankharas are both things which put together, construct, and compound other things, and the things that are put together, constructed, and compounded...

(2) As the fourth of the five aggregates, sankhara is defined as the six classes of volitions (cha cetanakaya, III 60, 25-28), that is, volition regarding the six types of sense objects. Hence again I render it volitional formations. But the sankharakhanda has a wider compass than the sankhara of dependent origination series, comprising all instances of volition and not only those that are kammically active. In the Abhidhamma Pitaka and the commentaries, the sankharakhanda further serves as an umbrella category for classifying all mental concomittants of consciousness apart from feeling and perception. It thus includes all wholesome, unwholesome, and variable mental factors mentioned but not formally classified among the aggregates in the Sutta Pitaka

-- Introduction to A translation of the Samyutta Nikaya, Bhikkhu Bodhi
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:21 am

Clinging is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Nibbida
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Re: What is it that clings?

Post by Nibbida » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:11 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Q: What is it that clings?
A: Clinging

Metta,
Retro. :)
This is the way I would say it. If I would elaborate at all, it would be to say that there is no thing that clings, only the activity of clinging. It's a process, not an object.

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