In Love - what to do about it?

A place to discuss casual topics amongst spiritual friends.
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Mawkish1983 wrote:
theAYSays wrote:In terms of differentiating between attachment and love? I think they are two different elements that are neither mutually exclusive nor intrinsic.
The near enemy of metta has already been mentioned. I, for example, am happily married and feel strong feelings of love (I think) and attachment for my wife. Deferentiating between the two and discerning what is love and what is the illusion of love is something I am yet to achieve. I'm working on it. I have not doubt at all that the Bodhisatta loved his parents completely, yet he left them to become a sramana (spelling?). Myriad lifetimes of developing the brahmaviharas must have helped. When he attained enlightenment he was so unattached to the world that he famously had to be asked to teach the Dhamma, having no desire of his own to do so (another thread here somewhere discusses this).

I am sure you and I are a long way off this level of perfection, so we must make do practicing to develop the brahmaviharas more and more.
Yes, we are all a long way off from that great level of cultivation.

If you look at both Mahayanan and Thervadin scriptures, you'll find that the Buddha has compassion for even the 'less noble' or worldly desires of others. Plenty of times has he expounded on what kind of attitudes and karmas will result in worldly goods, such as familial happiness, government positions, health, or even material wealth! So clearly these things are not antagonistic to Buddhist practice.

I think this 'worldly' desire of mine is far more pure than attaining fame or wealth. And health is merely a vehicle towards happiness. Also, she's a Buddhist too, and I would certainly help her towards attaining enlightenment. Mahākāśyapa and his wife were married lifetime after lifetime because of the good they did in propagating Buddhism; that's something I want myself and my hopefully-future-wife to find.
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Monkey Mind
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Monkey Mind »

Isn't there a jataka story about a young lover who becomes love-sick with infatuation?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Monkey Mind
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Monkey Mind »

For example, story 13, page 64, using this source:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/jataka_tv1.pdf

I don't think the story is anti-love, just anti-infatuation.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

The story doesn't help. I'm not going through infatuation.

Infatuation is when you aren't aware of the person's faults, where you're seeking purely for your own emotional benefit, where you aren't looking for the other person's benefit.
Last edited by theAYSays on Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pink_trike
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by pink_trike »

"What to do about it?"

Love, and bring your practice to love.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

pink_trike wrote:"What to do about it?"

Love, and bring your practice to love.
Yes, but is there anything more concrete I can do?
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pink_trike
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by pink_trike »

theAYSays wrote:
pink_trike wrote:"What to do about it?"

Love, and bring your practice to love.
Yes, but is there anything more concrete I can do?
Nothing is ever concrete. That's why we practice wherever we find ourselves appearing, with whatever is on our plate. There's no magic pill, no magic chants. There's only the practice of training the mind.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

pink_trike wrote:
theAYSays wrote:
pink_trike wrote:"What to do about it?"

Love, and bring your practice to love.
Yes, but is there anything more concrete I can do?
Nothing is ever concrete. That's why we practice wherever we find ourselves appearing, with whatever is on our plate. There's no magic pill, no magic chants. There's only the practice of training the mind.
And I do do this. My question would be, is there anything else to do?
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Something like this was what I was looking for:
mikenz66 wrote:I particularly like this advice from
AN 4.55 Samajivina Sutta - Living in Tune.
"If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come, they should be in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment. Then they will see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come."
Metta
Mike
Concrete advice about what to do, what kinds of mentalities to establish. Saying "be more aware" does not specifically answer my questions, as it is general good practice, but not specific to my question about love.
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Cittasanto
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi All,
Dhammapada verse 242 and its commentary may be worth reflecting I don't have a version I can cut and paste but there is a copy on Buddhanet.
Asubha practice is the antidote to infatuation if I remember correctly, and it is also recommended in an Abhidhamma manual I have called 'a manual of abhidhamma' page 436 which can be gotten from buddhanet also.
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But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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PeterB
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by PeterB »

You need to do anything . It will pass. Guaranteed.
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Lazy_eye
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Lazy_eye »

Love and family relationships necessarily involve a great deal of attachment. It's built-in to the process. Consider early infant development, for example -- those cute behaviors a wee one starts displaying, around month 4, are all intended to foster child-parent bonding.

Similar things could be said about courtship behavior -- i.e. "falling in love".

My advice then, for what it's worth, is to be realistic and acknowledge the nature of romantic relationships (and, if you get married, family life). Don't shortchange them -- if you're going to go down that road, put your heart into it and accept that it involves attachment and desire. Without these things, your relationship will not flourish. For now, you can focus on appropriate attachment and restraint rather than non-attachment and renunciation. When problems arise, as they inevitably will, dhamma can help.

So fall in love, and enjoy every minute of it! But avoid the extremes of obsession, jealousy, over-infatuation, putting someone on a pedestal, etc. Be an ethical person; keep the five precepts. Be considerate of the other person's needs and aware of your own delusions. Make commitments and honor them -- don't lead your lover down a blind alley. Don't be too "clingy". But be true.

Just my two cents.

LE
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 6 times in total.
alan
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by alan »

theAysays:
You are exhibiting all the signs of infatuation. You'll deny it of course, but then again infatuation is perhaps best defined as a temporary state of insanity. I'm worried about your statement that only you can give her unconditional love.

A good way to deal with an emotional situations is to ask questions and really follow them out to their conclusions, so let me posit a few questions you might find helpful. These are for you to contemplate, not to answer on this thread. (If you responded here, invariably you'd defend your positions. The purpose is to help you come to a more sensible understanding of the dilemma you feel).

Before that, though: are you under the age of 30? If so, it is highly likely your hormones are talking. Don't fall for the Hollywood stuff about love lasting forever, etc. Lust is a huge component.
Ok then what do you mean by "unconditional love""? Not a dictionary definition, explain for yourself what the value would be in committing yourself, your time, your energy "even if she left me", etc.
You're setting yourself up for a very big emotional fall if you don't come to grips with this.

Your a Buddhist, but also very Confucian. What does that mean?

You can lead her to Enlightenment? Really? How? Will you get there first? How will this quest be aided by the necessities of the household life, and the babies that follow?

Sorry for the long post. I'm speaking as a guy who was madly in love with someone almost 20 years ago who means nothing to me now. Maybe I'm just writing this to my previous self.
Hope it helps!
Laurens
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Laurens »

Perhaps the best thing to do is not to think about it too much.

You love this person now, great :) be good to them and treat them kind - thats all you need to do surely?
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
alan
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by alan »

OH Laurens!
Laurens, Laurens, Laurens!

Here is our thirsty man!
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