When otherwise non-political entities become political

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retrofuturist
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When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:43 am

Greetings,

The Australian Football League is on the front page of today's newspaper in Melbourne, but not for the reasons it normally would be in September.

Yesterday, the AFL emphatically said 'YES' to marriage equality

https://twitter.com/AFL/status/910320094311456768

This move led to significant backlash:
AFL same sex marriage: League’s ‘yes’ call divides footy world
Sam Newman on same sex marriage, political correctness and what’s wrong with America
AFL Bullies Fans Over Same Sex Marriage (Opinion)

Amidst backlash, this morning the AFL has taken down the “YES” sign outside its headquarters in Docklands.

This is just one example of where organisations whose primary purpose is non-political, use their platform to partake in political activism.

In this topic, I would like us to discuss the pros and cons of such endeavours, and the issues that arise from such engagement.

Please note, I'm strictly talking here about organisations and companies, in contrast to instances when an individual might elect to use their profile to engage in political activism (e.g. Colin Kaepernick, Bhikkhu Bodhi)

I have a personal view on this matter but I want to keep my personal view clearly differentiated from the topic, so I will not include it in the original post... I will share it a little later on.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:21 am

retrofuturist wrote:In this topic, I would like us to discuss the pros and cons of such endeavours, and the issues that arise from such engagement.
Obviously, such endeavours are wrong because this divides people who look to those organisations for other reasons. In other words, those organisations ignore the benefaction they have received from their supporters, particularly those supporters who do not agree with the new political position. For example, when USA West & East Coast sponsored bhikkhus & bhikkhunis crusaded for Hillary, this was morally wrong, because Hillary used her role to support mass murderer. This divided Buddhists & resulted in a loss of respect towards the Sangha. Similarly, a sporting body is unqualified to support moral matters, particularly a sporting body that has a history of sexual abuse crimes & supports gambling, alcohol & junk food industries.
retrofuturist wrote:Bhikkhu Bodhi)
In Buddhism, there is the Triple Gem. A bhikkhu should represent the Triple Gem (rather than a personal profile).
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:17 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Will
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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by Will » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:29 am

Whether individuals or organized groups of same, is there a common reason for going political? I think so - as the Bard put it:
A politician - one that would circumvent God.
Although in these times God or Buddha or Virtue or selflessness of any sort, is not so much 'circumvented' as ignored. Such higher innate values are simply not part of the dominant worldly, secular mind of most. So they fall back on what they know best - a passionate drive to destroy the bad political movement and support the good one.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of selflessness.

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by Disciple » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:33 am

Good for the "AFL". The less discrimination we have around the world the better. More non-political entities should get involved.

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:05 am

Disciple wrote:Good for the "AFL". The less discrimination we have around the world the better. More non-political entities should get involved.
It may appear unfair, unjust & immoral when it is viewed as "discrimination". But this is not the rationale of past governments thus not really the key matter to be debated. The following is the rationale of a previous government:
The purpose of the Marriage Legislation Amendment Bill 2004 (‘the Bill’) is to give effect to the Government’s commitment to protect the institution of marriage by ensuring that marriage means a union of a man and a woman and that same sex relationships cannot be equated with marriage. The Bill also reflects the Commonwealth’s view that the adoption of children by same sex couples is undesirable.

In this Bill the Commonwealth legislates to the extent of its direct area of responsibility to prevent adoption by same sex couples under international agreements or arrangements to which Australia is a party. The principal provisions of the Bill:

− define marriage as the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life;

− confirm that unions solemnized overseas between same sex couples will not be recognized as marriages in Australia; and,

− prevent intercountry adoptions by same sex couples under multilateral or bilateral agreements or arrangements.
Schedule 2—Amendment of the Family Law Act 1975

1 After subsection 111C(4)
Insert:
(4A) However, regulations made for the purposes of this section must not facilitate, or provide for, the adoption of a child by 2 persons of the same sex who live together as a couple.

2 At the end of Division 3 of Part XIIIAA

Add:

111CA Certain international adoptions not allowed

A person (including an officer of a State or Territory) must not, for the purposes of:

(a) the Convention on Protection of Children and Cooperation in Respect of Intercountry Adoption signed at The Hague on 29 May 1993; or

(b) a bilateral agreement or arrangement on the adoption of children made between a State or Territory and an overseas jurisdiction;
facilitate, or provide for, the adoption of a child by 2 persons of the same sex who live together as a couple.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:28 am

Greetings,

And just to make sure this discussion doesn't get mired exclusively in Australian matters, let's consider also the international Starbucks coffee chain...

Are Starbucks' Political Statements Backfiring?
Starbucks' brand perception may have been dented by CEO Howard Schultz's promise to hire 10,000 refugees worldwide, according to a recent YouGov survey. The research firm claims that prior to the announcement in late January, 30% of respondents stated that they would consider visiting a Starbucks the next time they wanted coffee. After the announcement, that percentage dropped to 24%.

Schultz's decision was a direct response to the Trump administration's initial travel ban on citizens of several Muslim-majority countries. In an announcement to employees, Schultz stated that the company "will neither stand by, nor stand silent, as the uncertainty around the new administration's actions grows with each passing day."

...

This raises a tough question -- are Schultz's political views becoming an issue for the coffee chain's investors?

Schultz frequently embraces political controversies. In 2012, Starbucks' support for the legalization of same-sex marriages sparked calls for a boycott. In 2013, Schultz declared Starbucks' U.S. stores gun-free zones -- which resulted in gun-rights activists intentionally bringing firearms to stores during a "Bring Your Gun to Starbucks Day" organized across social media.

In response to the Ferguson riots and deteriorating race relations in the U.S., Starbucks launched the "Race Together" campaign in 2015. The awkwardly conceived campaign gave baristas an option to write "Race Together" on the cups of customers of (presumably) another race to initiate conversations about race relations, but critics on both sides of the political aisle claimed that Starbucks was overstepping its bounds. Starbucks promoted the campaign with full-page ads in U.S. newspapers with the words "Shall We Overcome?" and built its first store in Ferguson, which opened last April.

Last year, Starbucks embraced even more controversy with full-page newspaper ads across the U.S. calling for unity in the midst of a divisive election season. The black-and-white ads, which juxtaposed numerous antonyms like "isolation" and "community," stoked less controversy than the Race Together ads, but critics still complained that the coffee giant was commercializing current events.

In 2015, Starbucks launched a red cup for the holidays that eliminated all Christmas-themed ornaments and decorations. That move irritated some Christian groups, but Starbucks doubled down last year with a green cup which replaced all holiday and winter decorations with illustrations of groups of people as a "symbol of unity."
:coffee:

... and the Rebels of Google
Speaking exclusively to Breitbart News, an anonymous Google employee provided insight directly into the tech company’s office culture, language policing, and persecution for ideological wrongthink.

Breitbart News spoke to a current Google employee (alias “Tommy”) who outlined the company’s strictly leftist office culture and explained how saying the wrong thing or holding the wrong opinion can lead to severe repercussions within Google, ranging from reprimands by superiors to — in some cases — firings.

Breitbart News asked Tommy if he felt that there was a general bias against conservatives at Google, Tommy replied with an interesting answer that gives us some insight into how conservatives are viewed within the tech industry. “Some people will openly disrespect you if you voted for Donald Trump,” said Tommy. “It is common to see forum posts claiming that the Republican Party is the party of white supremacy or comparing us to Nazis. Although we are trained to assume good faith from our colleagues, many Googlers show disdain if you cite a story from a conservative news source, particularly Breitbart. They’ll think less of you if they know you are conservative.”

For anyone that has been following Breitbart’s “Rebels of Google” series, this statement will not be shocking. What is surprising though was the second part of Tommy’s answer, “Sometimes a coworker will claim that he respects and values conservatives, but only as long as those conservatives share his views on social issues. So a John Kasich Republican might be considered acceptable, but a Trump Republican would not be acceptable. Supporting restrictions on immigration makes you persona non grata.” This would imply that establishment Republicans and RINO’s are quite acceptable within the liberal tech world but conservatives that may fall outside of the Republican party establishment are not tolerated.

Tommy talked about the company’s stances on social issues and how they express their support of certain political groups, such as Black Lives Matter, on the Google campus. “The company goes completely overboard on LGBT issues, Black Lives Matter, and intersectional feminism,” said Tommy, “Pride Month is an epic celebration with outdoor live-DJ parties, giant statues on the main campus that stay up for weeks, and rainbow logos everywhere. Black Lives Matter activity ebbs and flows depending on what’s happening in the news; the company is always eager to get Googlers involved in those efforts and to hand out free merchandise such as Google-branded BLM hoodies.” Breitbart has confirmed that Google branded BLM hoodies do exist and are available for sale.

Tommy continued to say, “every executive on stage at the weekly all-hands meeting is wildly enthusiastic about every one of these initiatives. The Internal Comms department constantly sends us newsletter emails featuring one of the above themes, providing a steady stream of indoctrination and encouraging us to become “allies.” There are several intranet forums dedicated to #resisting the Trump administration and various other forms of far-left activism. Celebrations of events that are important to conservatives, like Easter or Memorial Day, are non-existent. Others would look at you funny if you even asked.” Breitbart has previously reported on Google’s supposed unwillingness to celebrate holidays such as Easter in the past
.
:computerproblem:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:57 am

retrofuturist wrote:... let's consider also the international Starbucks coffee chain...Rebels of Google...
For me, there is no correlation here. Starbucks & Google are private businesses; based on 'target marketing'. They deliberately choose their markets. For example, I closed my Facebook account last year, in rejection of Facebook censorship. This was Facebook's choice & my personal choice. Where as the AFL, while now a business, was probably originally a sporting association (when it began as the VFL) and represents a cultural sporting institution rather than a business. Aussie Rules is the majority sport for boys in Victoria, Tasmania, SA & WA.
This was said by the Lord...

"Living with Brahma are those families where, within the home, mother and father are respected by their children. Living with the early devas are those families where, within the home, mother and father are respected by their children. Living with the early teachers are those families where, within the home, mother and father are respected by their children. Living with those worthy of adoration are those families where, within the home, mother and father are respected by their children. 'Brahma,' bhikkhus, is a term for mother and father. 'Early devas' and 'early teachers' and 'those worthy of veneration' are terms for mother and father. For what reason? Because mother and father are very helpful to their children, they take care of them and bring them up and teach them about the world."

Mother and father are called
"Brahma," "early teachers"
And "worthy of veneration,"
Being compassionate towards
Their family of children.

Thus the wise should venerate them,
Pay them due honor,
Provide them with food and drink,
Give them clothing and a bed,
Anoint and bathe them
And also wash their feet.

When he performs such service
For his mother and his father,
They praise that wise person even here
And hereafter he rejoices in heaven

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_V9nn-mbL4
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:17 am

Good for the "AFL". The less discrimination we have around the world the better. More non-political entities should get involved.
I have no problems with organisations actively involve with eliminating discrimination.
I have seen affirmation posters in work places against total discrimination base on age, sex, nationality, colour or what every other discriminations.
I am for this sort of affirmative actions.
But I am against for organisation involve with bias politics.
The former unite people the latter divide people.
:shrug:

I apply the same standard when an individual might elect to use their profile to engage in political activism.
If Bikkhu Bodhi became famous due to his involvement with the Buddha's teaching he should be preaching Buddhist philosophy.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by SarathW » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:30 am

Starbucks' brand perception may have been dented
Could this be an advertising stunt?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:21 am

Greetings,
SarathW wrote:
Starbucks' brand perception may have been dented
Could this be an advertising stunt?
It could well be... they might believe that they will pick up increased business from their target demographic, which will then more than offset what they risk losing outside of it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:44 am

What about when LGBT politics becomes international cultural imperialism? Obama & Hillary care more about LGBT than about Iraqis, Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis & people of African nations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQMcrC_L8I
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

binocular
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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by binocular » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:31 am

retrofuturist wrote:This is just one example of where organisations whose primary purpose is non-political, use their platform to partake in political activism.
In this topic, I would like us to discuss the pros and cons of such endeavours, and the issues that arise from such engagement.
Take the Catholic Church, for example. It's not uncommon for Catholic priests to speak in favor of one political option (usually, a right-wing party), especially before elections (even though officially, they should not be doing that, with the separation of church and state etc.).

Also, if one is a member of the RCC here, it is easier to become a member of the right-wing party and vice versa.
From personal experience I know that wanting to be or being a Catholic while not favoring the right-wing option can make things very difficult. (Of course, mum's the word.)

I suppose since I come from a country where politics is deeply intertwined with organisations whose primary purpose is supposedly non-political, I can't imagine what an actually apolitical organization or institution would be like, so I can't really comment on the pros and cons.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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DooDoot
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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:01 pm

binocular wrote:Take the Catholic Church, for example. It's not uncommon for Catholic priests to speak in favor of one political option (usually, a right-wing party)...
In Australia, historically, the Catholic Church favoured the left-wing Labor Party because pre-WW2 the Irish were largely the Catholics & the working classes; which continued post-WW2 when Catholic Italians, Yugos, Lebos, etc, joined the working classes. Here, the Catholic Church supported the humanitarian values of the left-wing party; therefore, it was an ideological fit. I grew up, politically (but not religiously since I was always an atheist), as one of these working class Catholics. Possibly, in other places, the Catholic Church was right-wing because it opposed godless communism (e.g, 1930s German, Italian & Spanish National Socialism against Communism and 1960s US Catholicism supporting Vietnamese Catholicism against communism). For example, in Australia, in 1955, there was a split in the left-wing party among Catholics over the alleged infiltration of communism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia ... it_of_1955. Its only recently some right-wing Jesuits lead the right-wing party for a brief & failed time: http://www.smh.com.au/national/catholic ... -lezv.html. In Australia, Catholicism was historically left-wing.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by chownah » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:24 pm

From the OP:
This is just one example of where organisations whose primary purpose is non-political, use their platform to partake in political activism.

In this topic, I would like us to discuss the pros and cons of such endeavours, and the issues that arise from such engagement.
I think we should be careful in our definition of "political activism". Putting up a poster saying that LBJTO people should be treated respectfully and not be disciminated against is not in my view "political activism". Even having talks or presenting literature that explains (for instance) that black lives matters is not a single organisation and so it is best to consider that anything a blm organisation support should not be taken as necessarily representative of what other blm organisations do is not in my view "political activism".

The problem of course is that people seeing these posters or hearing the talks or reading the literature may be likely to politicize these things in their minds and conversations.
chownah

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Re: When otherwise non-political entities become political

Post by binocular » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:15 pm

DooDoot wrote:In Australia, Catholicism was historically left-wing.
Interesting!

- - -
chownah wrote:I think we should be careful in our definition of "political activism". Putting up a poster saying that LBJTO people should be treated respectfully and not be disciminated against is not in my view "political activism". Even having talks or presenting literature that explains (for instance) that black lives matters is not a single organisation and so it is best to consider that anything a blm organisation support should not be taken as necessarily representative of what other blm organisations do is not in my view "political activism".

The problem of course is that people seeing these posters or hearing the talks or reading the literature may be likely to politicize these things in their minds and conversations.
Why display such posters, if not with the intention for political activism?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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