In Love - what to do about it?

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theAYSays
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In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

It's a question that I feel is frequently ignored or stepped aside from in Buddhism. But - I'm in love, and what can I do? I've been chanting mantras, including the Medicine Buddha's initiation mantra (I'm specifically thinking about his seventh vow where he talks about helping those without family attain a wealth of family, which I can only understand as enabling people to get married and have lots of children). I care so much about this girl and want to spend the rest of my lifetimes with her. Is there anything I can do besides accumulate more merits, chant mantras, and do prostrations?
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

As this is a Theravada forum lets sidestep the "medicine Buddha" :)

I see this is your first post :) welcome to Dhammawheel. Have you tried metta bhavana? In Theravada, developing love* is important (it is a divine abode (brahmavihara) afterall!) :)

*depending on your definition of love. Love does not equal attachment.
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Mawkish1983 wrote:As this is a Theravada forum lets sidestep the "medicine Buddha" :)

I see this is your first post :) welcome to Dhammawheel. Have you tried metta bhavana? In Theravada, developing love* is important (it is a divine abode (brahmavihara) afterall!) :)

*depending on your definition of love. Love does not equal attachment.
Sorry, I didn't realize that the medicine Buddha was not part of Thervadin Buddhism.

Love does not equal attachment, but in this case it does. Which isn't to say that I don't care deeply about her protection, safety, and happiness; in fact I value these significantly above my attachment to her. But I believe the most good I can do for her is by being with her more, and considering she'll find romantic attachment anyway, I'd much rather her fall in love with me than someone who cannot give her the unconditional love I can.

From my understanding, metta bhavana is compassion meditation, right? I've been doing that too.
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Hi theAYSays,

I don't know much about your situation but from what little you've written the love you're describing seems less like metta than it does sensual desire and infatuation. I can't pretend to know, however, so please don't take offense but you should seriously ask yourself if the desire to be with this girl would be the same if she were an old hag (which she will be some day if she's lucky) or if she decided to fall out of love with you. Would you still want to be in love and spend lifetimes with a person who didn't feel the same. I wish you all the best and hope that you find all the happiness a lay life well lived can confer upon a person but do proceed with care and don't believe everything you feel without taking it to task. Be well.

Metta,

Mike
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

theAYSays wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:As this is a Theravada forum lets sidestep the "medicine Buddha" :)

I see this is your first post :) welcome to Dhammawheel. Have you tried metta bhavana? In Theravada, developing love* is important (it is a divine abode (brahmavihara) afterall!) :)

*depending on your definition of love. Love does not equal attachment.
Sorry, I didn't realize that the medicine Buddha was not part of Thervadin Buddhism.

Love does not equal attachment, but in this case it does. Which isn't to say that I don't care deeply about her protection, safety, and happiness; in fact I value these significantly above my attachment to her. But I believe the most good I can do for her is by being with her more, and considering she'll find romantic attachment anyway, I'd much rather her fall in love with me than someone who cannot give her the unconditional love I can.

From my understanding, metta bhavana is compassion meditation, right? I've been doing that too.
Be careful. In the commentaries it is advised that you don't attempt to develop metta for a member of the opposite sex as you run the risk of confusing metta for its near-enemy of sensual desire. Also, compassion meditation or development is kaaruna bhaavanaa. Be well!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Be careful. In the commentaries it is advised that you don't attempt to develop metta for a member of the opposite sex as you run the risk of confusing metta for its near-enemy of sensual desire.
I'm not massively familiar with commentaries, but I'd like to read more :) are there any online references to this?
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Hi theAYSays,

I don't know much about your situation but from what little you've written the love you're describing seems less like metta than it does sensual desire and infatuation. I can't pretend to know, however, so please don't take offense but you should seriously ask yourself if the desire to be with this girl would be the same if she were an old hag (which she will be some day if she's lucky) or if she decided to fall out of love with you. Would you still want to be in love and spend lifetimes with a person who didn't feel the same. I wish you all the best and hope that you find all the happiness a lay life well lived can confer upon a person but do proceed with care and don't believe everything you feel without taking it to task. Be well.

Metta,

Mike
Hi Mike,

Thank you for your response! To answer your question about metta vs sensual desire, I'll go into description, because I can't say that it is classically either. I would still want to be with her even until she becomes an "old hag" and if she decided to fall out of love with me. Even if she cheated on me I would still love her.

Yes, I am attached. But a mother's love for her only child is attached too; this does not take away from the purity of the mother's love!
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

theAYSays wrote:Yep, I am attached. But a mother's love for her only child is attached too; this does not take away from the purity of the mother's love!
Mustard seed from a house where no-one has died.
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Mawkish1983 wrote:
theAYSays wrote:Yep, I am attached. But a mother's love for her only child is attached too; this does not take away from the purity of the mother's love!
Mustard seed from a house where no-one has died.
Death is inevitable, but can be postponed by improvement of health. Which can be done physically as well as spiritually. Which gets me back to my question of what else I can do to help cultivate my relationship.
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retrofuturist
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mawkish,
Mawkish1983 wrote:I'm not massively familiar with commentaries, but I'd like to read more :) are there any online references to this?
Whether this particular section is online or not I'm not sure, but this is covered in the Visuddhimagga.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

theAYSays wrote:what else I can do to help cultivate my relationship.
Are you asking us for relationship advice or for advice about differentiating between attachment and love? We can probably help with the latter... maybe an agony aunt could help with the former?
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

retrofuturist wrote:this is covered in the Visuddhimagga.
Thank you Retro :) that's another one for the research list
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Mawkish,

Sorry but I lent my Vissuddhimagga to a friend and don't have it at hand. But Retro's right, it's definitely in there. Be well.

Mike
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
theAYSays
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by theAYSays »

Mawkish1983 wrote:
theAYSays wrote:what else I can do to help cultivate my relationship.
Are you asking us for relationship advice or for advice about differentiating between attachment and love? We can probably help with the latter... maybe an agony aunt could help with the former?
Haha what's an agony aunt?

I am always open to relationship advice. I'm a Buddhist, but very much a Confucianist as well, so the most important thing to me in life is relationships (friendship, marriage, family, whatever). Anything you have to offer will be appreciated.

In terms of differentiating between attachment and love? I think they are two different elements that are neither mutually exclusive nor intrinsic. And I am feeling both. Though, after I wrote that I would still love her even if she cheated on me, I think I felt a sense of peace because I realized nothing in the conditional world could keep me from loving her.
Mawkish1983
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Re: In Love - what to do about it?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

theAYSays wrote:In terms of differentiating between attachment and love? I think they are two different elements that are neither mutually exclusive nor intrinsic.
The near enemy of metta has already been mentioned. I, for example, am happily married and feel strong feelings of love (I think) and attachment for my wife. Deferentiating between the two and discerning what is love and what is the illusion of love is something I am yet to achieve. I'm working on it. I have not doubt at all that the Bodhisatta loved his parents completely, yet he left them to become a sramana (spelling?). Myriad lifetimes of developing the brahmaviharas must have helped. When he attained enlightenment he was so unattached to the world that he famously had to be asked to teach the Dhamma, having no desire of his own to do so (another thread here somewhere discusses this).

I am sure you and I are a long way off this level of perfection, so we must make do practicing to develop the brahmaviharas more and more.
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