Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

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clw_uk
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Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:44 am

Personally I disagree with the word "Islamophobia". There is nothing "phobic" about fearing Islam, at least in its dominant forms, and all to often the word is used to merely smear an opponent and to shut down criticism of Islam, thus shielding the religion (which is dangerous).

Criticism and opposition to Islam is fine in my opinion. To be so doesn't necessarily mean being anti-Muslim (another confusion) or that the person is racist (Islam isn't a race). As Buddhists I feel we can be critical of bad ideas, whilst showing compassion and good will to individuals.

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:22 am

It's not about not being able to criticize Islam. Criticize away.

It's about fearing all Muslims just because they are Muslims. The term was taken from Homophobia, which isn't a real phobia either. People just equate the term phobia with fear, and if by Islamophobia you mean an uneducated, all encompassing fear of Islam that has no basis in reality, it fits.

People don't want to debate or think anymore, that is why they shut things down with terms. Not using the word isn't going to make people be open-minded or willing to talk.

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by Buddha Vacana » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:02 am

I am pretty sure islamophobia is real and it looks like this:

[Multiple pictures of anti-Islamic protest removed]
Last edited by retrofuturist on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: [Multiple pictures of anti-Islamic protest removed]

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:05 am

Buddha Vacana wrote:I am pretty sure islamophobia is real and it looks like this:

[Multiple pictures of anti-Islamic protest removed]

That's opposition. I'm not seeing a phobia. You see the same stuff from new-atheists in relation to Christianity. Is that "Christianphobic"?

Once again, a rational fear is by definition not a phobia
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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by Buddha Vacana » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:10 am

clw_uk wrote: That's opposition. I'm not seeing a phobia.

Because apparently, you don't know what islamophoba means
clw_uk wrote:You see the same stuff from new-atheists in relation to Christianity. Is that "Christianphobic"?
Of course, yes.
clw_uk wrote:Once again, a rational fear is by definition not a phobia
1. Can you please do me a favor and get a definition of islamophobia from a dictionary?

2. Claiming Isis = Islam, Islam=brainswashed political cult, not a religion, Islam=crime against humanity, doest that look rational to you?

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:31 am

Buddha Vacana
Because apparently, you don't know what islamophoba means
Islam - An abarahamic religion based upon the teachings of Muhammad

Phobia - An irrational fear

Once again, being afraid of Islam doesn't = a phobia, much less being critical of it.
Of course, yes.
Ridiculous nonsense. There are legitimate reasons to fear Christianity as well, although much less so than Islam

Can you please do me a favor and get a definition of islamophobia from a dictionary?
Why? Its a nonsense term. It gained traction from the Runnymede report "Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All" (1997), where there were even doubts about the accuracy of the term by the authors. Anti-muslim prejudice is more accurate. Islamophobia is bunk.

Islamophilia seems to be a real phenomenon however, mostly for those on the left.
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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:36 am

Buddha Vacana
Claiming Isis = Islam
ISIS is a form of Islam. Its actually pretty close to the ideology of Saudi Arabia and the doctrine spewed out by Al-Azhar University, which is somewhat of an authority on Sunni Islam (the university won't even condemn them as heretics).


Islam=brainswashed political cult
Needs more nuanced, but it does have a cultish and political dimension to it
not a religion
Obviously ridiculous, but based upon the idea that Islam is also a political ideology. It largely is.

Islam=crime against humanity
On the whole, yes.

doest that look rational to you?
On the whole, yes.
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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:45 am

clw_uk wrote:Personally I disagree with the word "Islamophobia". There is nothing "phobic" about fearing Islam, at least in its dominant forms, and all to often the word is used to merely smear an opponent and to shut down criticism of Islam, thus shielding the religion (which is dangerous).
Often 'phobias' have merits & often they have no merits. For example, my two best most reliable friends are homosexual. They are the two best neighbourhood people I know. But some people do have genuine & expected fears of homosexuality. For example, most parents do not have children with the hope that their child is homosexual. But if their child eventually is homosexual, they generally must learn to accept this difference. I think it is not particularly useful to get stuck on words such as Islamphobia & Homophobia. For me, its not Buddhist. Its just more of this plague & disease of IDENTITARIAN politics that divides the world and creates wars. Buddhism teaches to examine good & bad rather than get stuck identity. Lots of things things have a good side & a bad side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCaveVzlabQ
clw_uk wrote:Criticism and opposition to Islam is fine in my opinion. To be so doesn't necessarily mean being anti-Muslim (another confusion) or that the person is racist (Islam isn't a race). As Buddhists I feel we can be critical of bad ideas, whilst showing compassion and good will to individuals.
The Buddha said to his seven year old son: "He who tells a deliberate lie, there is no evil he cannot do". How many proven lies were told about 9/11 & Iraq by Bush, Blair, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Netanyahu, etc? Millions of Muslims have been killed since 9/11 even though they had zero relationship to Al Qaeda. Try to imagine believing 'Islam' did not do 9/11 but some other political agenda did 9/11. Do you think your Islamophobia would change? Ajahn Chah used to teach about how bad you feel when a person insults you but later, when you are advised the insulter has a mental illness, how relieved you feel. Don't you ever ask why Britain & the USA sell $$billions$$ of weapons to Saudi Arabia but it was/is Saudi Arabian Wahhabi that Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc, follow? Are you actually aware Great Britain started Saudi Arabia and the CIA started the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Taliban & these other extremist groups? When I travelled in Islamic countries it was awesome. My two homosexual friends had a great holiday in Iran recently. Maybe we need to travel more & watch TV less.
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:50 am

Lets to back to basics.
Islam:

The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/islam


phobia:

An extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.
‘she suffered from a phobia about birds’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/phobia


I'm not a fan of identity politics, but as a gay man I have a lot to fear from Islam. Compared to other religions, it is lacking. Everywhere that Islam dominates becomes Hell.
Last edited by retrofuturist on Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Response to now deleted ad-hominem argumentation edited out
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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:37 am

Greetings,

This topic has been removed briefly for discussion amongst staff on how to proceed.

We have removed:

- Some overtly inflammatory discussion which did not advance the actual topic of whether Islamophobia is a misnomer
- Ad-hominem argumentation and baseless accusations against other members

Moving forward:

- This topic will be in the Hot Topics (News) section. As such, posts will need to be approved by a moderator before they appear publicly. This is to stop the topic spiralling out of control again before moderators have an opportunity to attend to it.
- Please keep to the topic... Is Islamophobia is a misnomer or not? As Buddhists can we be critical of certain ideas, whilst showing compassion and good will to those who hold them.

:focus:

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"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:47 am

An acceptable compromise for this page. Nice to see sensible management


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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by Mr Man » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:06 am

clw_uk wrote:Lets to back to basics.
Islam:

The religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/islam


phobia:

An extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.
‘she suffered from a phobia about birds’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/phobia


Why not just look up "Islamophobia" in the dictionary if you want to know what the word means?

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by robertk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:18 am

clw_uk wrote:Lets to back to basics.

. Everywhere that Islam dominates becomes Hell.
I lived in Thailand for over 6 years And have been living in a muslim country in the Gulf for 5.
Overall the Gulf is a way nicer place I would say.


Occasionally woken up by the loudspeakers from the mosque- I did prefer the tone of the Thai temple speakers - but god they were noisy (fortunately far from where I slept except for brief periods).

The thing is muslim countries (in the Gulf ) run well. All the benefits of civilisation are readily available***, more-so than western countries by and large. NO tax at all on anything, and necessities like fuel, water and power all heavily subsidized(to such an extent that they don't even factor) I spend 5 times more on coffee than on all of those combined.

The people are urbane, extremely well travelled, speak good English - and are great supporters of the West. ISIS is of course banned- and considered as mental as the KKK is in the west.

Muslims are, by the rules of the religion, mostly generous to the poor.
I have only had one attempt at conversion where someone I didn't know- and who looked a bit odd, offered me a pamphlet on Islam..

Which brings me to my next comparison- with Christianity: the Bible has this section
One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. Leviticus 24:16
and this:
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them Leviticus 20:13
And it was only a few hundred years ago when they were burning heretics at the cross. Christians these days completely ignore this stuff - and in fact so do virtually all Muslims when it comes to the harsh passages in their holy books. It is true that a small section of muslims take it seriously but it is just as likely that in the future all muslims will reject/intepret those parts as much as christians now do



***Alcohol is prohibited- but that is fine by me.
The bacon is beef - that does suck :|

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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:33 am

RobertK
The thing is muslim countries (in the Gulf ) run well. All the benefits of civilisation are readily available***, more-so than western countries by and large. NO tax at all on anything, and necessities like fuel, water and power all heavily subsidized(to such an extent that they don't even factor) I spend 5 times more on coffee than on all of those combined.
I love how you define good in terms of low taxes and material wealth. What matters political oppression and human rights abuses if one has no taxes and low fuel prices?

The people are urbane, extremely well travelled, speak good English - and are great supporters of the West. ISIS is of course banned- and considered as mental as the KKK is in the west.
Whilst their states funds terrorists and extremists.

Which brings me to my next comparison- with Christianity: the Bible has this section
The famous "whataboutism" deflection. Firstly I can sit here with you all day and criticise biblical passages. At the end of it we can agree and still have not said anything about Islam. But secondly there is a difference. Christianity has been forced to reform on the whole. Islam hasn't on the whole and is stuck in medieval brutality and regressivness. What's more, I doubt that Islam can ever be reformed like Christianity was. It's shown itself to be more immobile.

But, at least those taxes are low and fuel is cheap ;)
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Re: Islamophobia - A nonsense term?

Post by binocular » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:42 am

I think that most things that are considered phobias, aren't examples of phobias (ie. fears) at all, but of plain old hatred. It's just more politically correct to call those things fears.

Besides, compounds with "miso-" (meaning 'hatred') are harder to make than compounds with "-phobia."

What's actually going on is misoislamia, misohomosexualia, to make a few new, but more adequate words.

P.S.
I googled -- "misoislamia" actually exists already.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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