the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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FallAway
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by FallAway »

seeker242 wrote:
FallAway wrote:
I am not so very familiar with what a vegan "lifestyle" would entail.

It basically entails a lifestyle that just makes every attempt, within reason, to not consume things or do things that harm animals. For example, only plant food diet, no flesh, no dairy, no eggs. No food with animal based ingredients. No leather clothes or products, no silk, no wool. No purchasing of products tested on animals. No purchasing of pets, only rescue adoptions if one wants a pet. No killing rat traps, only live catch. Stuff like that. It's not as strict as Jain, but it's a perfect fit with Buddhist non-harming. Some vegans have a problem with "backyard eggs", some don't as long as the animals are not treated like commodities. :smile:
Seeker, thanks for that overall explanation. I may be further down the road than I thought...

:namaste:
Be a lamp unto yourself.
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

FallAway wrote:
seeker242 wrote:
FallAway wrote:
I am not so very familiar with what a vegan "lifestyle" would entail.

It basically entails a lifestyle that just makes every attempt, within reason, to not consume things or do things that harm animals. For example, only plant food diet, no flesh, no dairy, no eggs. No food with animal based ingredients. No leather clothes or products, no silk, no wool. No purchasing of products tested on animals. No purchasing of pets, only rescue adoptions if one wants a pet. No killing rat traps, only live catch. Stuff like that. It's not as strict as Jain, but it's a perfect fit with Buddhist non-harming. Some vegans have a problem with "backyard eggs", some don't as long as the animals are not treated like commodities. :smile:
Seeker, thanks for that overall explanation. I may be further down the road than I thought...

:namaste:
Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
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FallAway
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

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chownah wrote: Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
Ah, and here is where there may be an issue for me as well. I have a rescue cow, 3 rescue goats and 14 rescue chickens, all of which also produce manure, totally organic. I have a small garden and it is fertilized with this manure.

Although I see you said "within reason" regarding the lifestyle I think running into militant vegans would be unpleasant for me as I would feel put on the defensive as far as breaking, or even bending the rules goes.

This could prompt some interesting discussion with vegans here though. I wonder if a vegan would reply to this post and offer his or her opinion of the rescue animal/manure aspect.

Thanks again for the information Chownah.

:namaste:
Be a lamp unto yourself.
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

You are welcome.
Please note that I did not say "within reason"......but do be advised that by not saying this I did not intend to imply "without reason".
chownah
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FallAway
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by FallAway »

seeker242 wrote:It basically entails a lifestyle that just makes every attempt, within reason, to not consume things or do things that harm animals.
chownah wrote:Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
......
Please note that I did not say "within reason"......but do be advised that by not saying this I did not intend to imply "without reason".
Noted, with apologies, Chownah. I mixed that in from a post from Seeker.

Sometimes "membership" into an "ism" can bring divisiveness within the membership itself. It's good to remember that both "within reason" and "without reason" are attitudes that support cohesion. Much success with your vegetable garden.

:namaste:
Be a lamp unto yourself.
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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 »

chownah wrote: Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
Some people, who are able to grow their own food, do that. :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

seeker242 wrote:
chownah wrote: Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
Some people, who are able to grow their own food, do that. :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening
Yes. Some people do have gardens that way. What I am working on is a way to do it efficiently in a way which can support an income. I am not thinking that I am inventing something new. What I am doing is organizing and developing the land and water resources which I have to be able to do it in a way which can provide a living income. It is not as easy as you think. For instance....if you don't have adequate drainage and your neighbor blocks off the usual route for your excess rain water to drain then the soil will be too wet to till and if you have already planted then your vegetables plants or your green manure crop will die. If you plant your seed crop for next years green manure planting too late then you will get a very small yield and have no seeds for next year and if you plant it too early you will have problems keeping the weeds down.....in the rainy season there is too much water and in the dry season there is not enough so you need to develop an irrigation system...in years past you had not problems storing seeds for the next year but then this year for some unknown reason your seeds have deteriorated so when you plant you get big gaps in the row and only half a crop unless you want to till it all up and start over again which might be too late in the season for that crop...and where will you be able to get good seed?.....the list of problems is almost endless.
chownah
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

seeker242 wrote:
chownah wrote: Perhaps we should add to the list that one's food should not be grown with animal products (manures, blood, bone, fishmeal etc.) and should not be grown using pesticides. I am currently working on growing vegetables in this manner.
chownah
Some people, who are able to grow their own food, do that. :smile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_organic_gardening
Yes. Some people do have gardens that way. What I am working on is a way to do it efficiently in a way which can support an income. I am not thinking that I am inventing something new. What I am doing is organizing and developing the land and water resources which I have to be able to do it in a way which can provide a living income. It is not as easy as you think. For instance....if you don't have adequate drainage and your neighbor blocks off the usual route for your excess rain water to drain then the soil will be too wet to till and if you have already planted then your vegetables plants or your green manure crop will die. If you plant your seed crop for next years green manure planting too late then you will get a very small yield and have no seeds for next year and if you plant it too early you will have problems keeping the weeds down.....in the rainy season there is too much water and in the dry season there is not enough so you need to develop an irrigation system...in years past you had not problems storing seeds for the next year but then this year for some unknown reason your seeds have deteriorated so when you plant you get big gaps in the row and only half a crop unless you want to till it all up and start over again which might be too late in the season for that crop...and where will you be able to get good seed?.....the list of problems is almost endless.
chownah
Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3pmMZDko60

Animals are innocent. Don't be speciesist.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Santi253
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by Santi253 »

In the Lotus Sutra, the naga princess becomes a Buddha. This shows that all creatures, great and small, have Buddha-nature. This is one reason why vegetarianism is widely practiced in Mahayana Buddhism.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by chownah »

lyndon taylor wrote:
chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
Yeah so what does that have to do with the new research?
chownah
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lyndon taylor
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by lyndon taylor »

chownah wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:
chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Yeah the originator of that Idea Dr Atkins, died of a heart attack.
Yeah so what does that have to do with the new research?
chownah
Its not new findings, its the same old Atkins crxp.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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seeker242
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Post by seeker242 »

chownah wrote:Some dietary news:
New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer...
https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/0 ... -carbs-bad
chownah
Actually, this study looked at only refined and processed carbs. AKA junk food. So the lesson here is yea, junk food is still bad for you.
The researchers found some differences between results for those living in Asian countries compared to other regions. For example there was no statistically significant difference in early death from all causes between those with the highest, compared to the lowest percentage of energy from carbohydrate for those living in Asian regions. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08- ... carbs.html
This is mostly because asians get their carbs from things like rice, instead of coca cola.
In an earlier analysis of data from this new study, the team reported very low intakes of vegetables and fruit
Not really a problem for vegetarians.
The researchers noted that their study did not look at the specific types of food from which nutrients were derived. And, that, said Bethany O'Dea, constitutes a "major flaw from a nutrition standpoint." O'Dea is a cardiothoracic dietitian with Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. "For example, eating a healthy carb like an apple is more nutrient dense and better for you than eating a bag of processed potato chips," O'Dea said. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/large-stud ... d-for-you/
To do a study on carbs and not differentiate foods, AKA apple vs potato chips, well, that's just bad science.
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