The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
-
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:13 pm
The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
The end of suffering (dukkha) is the end of dukkha!
don't really need to add any more types of dukkha, it simply is Dukkha which ends. but that isn't to say that we cease to feel things, or see.... things we may of found dukkha, but the reaction to them we have, ceases.
don't really need to add any more types of dukkha, it simply is Dukkha which ends. but that isn't to say that we cease to feel things, or see.... things we may of found dukkha, but the reaction to them we have, ceases.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
based upon greed, hatred and delusionManapa wrote: but the reaction to them we have,
ceases.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Hi heraclito27
The end of suffering is the end of dukkha.
Vedana is classified as either pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.
Some vedana are caused by such factors as nutriment and other external factors.
While the end of suffering is the end of dukkha, it isn;t necesarily the end of unpleasant sensation.
You see examples of this in the sutta where the Buddha reclines in order to relieve back pain and when Devadatta throws a rock which hits the Buddhas foot and causes it to bleed.
kind regards
Ben
The end of suffering is the end of dukkha.
Vedana is classified as either pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.
Some vedana are caused by such factors as nutriment and other external factors.
While the end of suffering is the end of dukkha, it isn;t necesarily the end of unpleasant sensation.
You see examples of this in the sutta where the Buddha reclines in order to relieve back pain and when Devadatta throws a rock which hits the Buddhas foot and causes it to bleed.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
-
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:13 pm
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Really?
Dukkha <> dukkha-vedana.
But then, what is dukkha?
Thanks for answering .
Dukkha <> dukkha-vedana.
But then, what is dukkha?
Thanks for answering .
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
first noble truthheraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?
"Now what is the noble truth of suffering (dukkha)? Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are suffering; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is suffering; not getting what one wants is suffering. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are suffering.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
-
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:13 pm
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
But for example birth, aging and death are material process. Matter doesn't know anything, is consiousness what knows. What does it know? It knows sense impressions as back pain and concepts like "I'm diying, I'm old, I can't do things".
It's because these kind of consiousness that arise dukkha-vedana.
If my body is dying, but this phenomena doesn't produce any painful sense impression, and does't produce any painful mental concept then I have no problem at all with body diying.
How can I perceive dukkha if is not by means or in the dimension of vedana?
It's because these kind of consiousness that arise dukkha-vedana.
If my body is dying, but this phenomena doesn't produce any painful sense impression, and does't produce any painful mental concept then I have no problem at all with body diying.
How can I perceive dukkha if is not by means or in the dimension of vedana?
"Now what is the noble truth of suffering (dukkha)? Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are suffering; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is suffering; not getting what one wants is suffering. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are suffering.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness, and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed. - Maha-parinibbana Suttaheraclito27 wrote:
If my body is dying, but this phenomena doesn't produce any painful sense impression, and does't produce any painful mental concept then I have no problem at all with body diying.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- Dhammabodhi
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:25 pm
- Location: New Delhi, India
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Great explanationDhammabodhi wrote:heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?
With best wishes
Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma
Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma
-
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Superb.Dhammabodhi wrote:heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Greetings heraclito27,
Dukkha has multiple subtleties and can be translated in many ways depending on those subtleties... the more common translations include suffering, pain or stress.
Arahantship ends suffering and stress, but it does not end physical pain.
Metta,
Retro.
Dukkha has multiple subtleties and can be translated in many ways depending on those subtleties... the more common translations include suffering, pain or stress.
Arahantship ends suffering and stress, but it does not end physical pain.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Very good indeed! Perhaps the Venerable (wonderful speaking style) could have expanded on the sports metaphor, though. He used the "stress" translation instead of "suffering" and emphasized the dukkha involved in excitement, in shouting on your favourite football team, or bungee jumping. But that excitement is only one aspect of dukkha, isn't it. There is also dukkha involved in the calmest of experiences, say canoeing on a misty lake at sunrise. Because of the impermanence, and the longing for a repeat of the experience it can condition, and the dissatisfaction with harsh situations it can condition. I know everyone knows that, but thought I'd just add to the venerable's excellent talk a little. Thanks for posting it!Sanghamitta wrote:Superb.Dhammabodhi wrote:heraclito27 wrote:But then, what is dukkha?
Metta,
Phil
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)
Re: The end of suffering is the end of dukkha vedana?
Hi Phil
Indeed, everything experienced within samsara from the most gross to the supremely super-fine experiences within the arupa jhanas, condtions dukkha if attachment is present.
metta
Ben
Indeed, everything experienced within samsara from the most gross to the supremely super-fine experiences within the arupa jhanas, condtions dukkha if attachment is present.
metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..