Who are these Devas responsible for creation?

[SarathW]

Who are these Devas responsible for creation?
Are they similar to Abrahmic God who create the world?

=========
the Devas Delighting in Creation are more splendid & more refined than the Contented Devas... the Devas Wielding Power over the Creations of Others are more splendid & more refined than the Devas Delighting in Creation...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

[form]

Dun think these devas create the world, more like their are part of certain phenomena like clouds, wave, wind, rain etc. Dun sound very scientific does it?

[plwk]

And which part of Buddhism is 'scientific' if I may ask?

[form]

And which part of Buddhism is 'scientific' if I may ask?

The four noble truths and eightfold path.

[plwk]

Right.. I rest my case. Back to you SarathW

[paul]

[quote=]And which part of Buddhism is 'scientific' if I may ask?[/quote]

Impermanence is a scientific fact.

[form]

Those parts that can be investigated and observed.

[Phena]

Who are these Devas responsible for creation?
Are they similar to Abrahmic God who create the world?

=========
the Devas Delighting in Creation are more splendid & more refined than the Contented Devas... the Devas Wielding Power over the Creations of Others are more splendid & more refined than the Devas Delighting in Creation...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

What do you think Sarath, is this statement saying definitively that Devas are responsible for creation? I think there is more than a little ambiguity there. Do you know of any other suttas that says definitely that Devas are responsible for creation?

The second question is more straight forward. The Abrahamic God is omniscient, omnipotent and creator of all, which is evidently different and this is made clear in the Gilana Sutta that you quoted from:

• "If he should say, 'My mind is raised above the Devas Wielding Power over the Creations of Others and is set on the Brahma world,' he should be told, 'Friend, even the Brahma world is inconstant, impermanent, included in self-identity. It would be good if, having raised your mind above the Brahma world, you brought it to the cessation of self-identity.'

[paul]

We can access these realms and they are really thought levels. The devas delighting in creation is the thought level accessed when involved in the artistic process. The devas wielding power over other's creations is the mental level of those that sell or collect the art. Female opera singers are in fact called "divas". These states of mind may be sublime but they are merely mundane as they do not have Nibbana as object.

[santa100]

From Ven. Nyanatiloka's ditionary:

A class of devas, inhabiting the fifth of the six deva-worlds. (D.i.218; M.i.289, etc.; S.i.133, etc.; A.i.210, etc.
For their life span see Compendium 140f).
They are so called because they delight in their own creations. They can create any form in any colour. NidA.109; RA.234; VibhA.519.

While the highlighted part seems to give much power to them, it's important to notice that being powerful as they are, these devas cannot violate the rule of all rules: kamma, ie making a being suffer if his/her kammic stream did not have the seeds that lead to suffering, etc. It's not an authoritarian/dictatorship kind of system, it's a constitutional monarchy one.

[mikenz66]

What do you think Sarath, is this statement saying definitively that Devas are responsible for creation? I think there is more than a little ambiguity there. Do you know of any other suttas that says definitely that Devas are responsible for creation?

Surely there can be devas who "create" some things. People create things too: planes, trains, automobiles... We don't have to read "creation" in the sense of Genesis...


Mike

[form]

We can access these realms and they are really thought levels. The devas delighting in creation is the thought level accessed when involved in the artistic process. The devas wielding power over other's creations is the mental level of those that sell or collect the art. Female opera singers are in fact called "divas". These states of mind may be sublime but they are merely mundane as they do not have Nibbana as object.

Madonna is a Deva? Her manager is the Deva yielding power over the artist?

[form]

What do you think Sarath, is this statement saying definitively that Devas are responsible for creation? I think there is more than a little ambiguity there. Do you know of any other suttas that says definitely that Devas are responsible for creation?

Surely there can be devas who "create" some things. People create things too: planes, trains, automobiles... We don't have to read "creation" in the sense of Genesis...


Mike

What you have described have very deep implications with the functioning of the mundane world.

[davidbrainerd]

"Delighting in Creation"

Creation, verb or noun in this place in original?

That is what eould determine the meaning. Because "Delighting in Creation" if creation is a verb in the original would be equivalent to "Delighting in Creating".

Of couse, it could be that Pali is as ambiguous here as English, and probably is!

In English "Delighting in Creation" is ambiguous. No way to prove grammatically that creation is not a verb here, or that someone didn't just choose to say "Delighting in Creation" where "Love to create" is more natural. Just because there is a more natural way to say it does not prove the author did not mean it.

[justindesilva]

Devas for creation is only cited in Hinduism.
Greek mythology too express stories about deities who created various phenomena in creation. Clouds rain storms floods are all creations of deities as of Hinduism with Vishnu as the protector of environment.
But buddhism explains that Darma protects the environment conditioned by morality (sila)

With buddhism to my knowledge there is no deity or person involved in creation. If at all creation of worlds or objects is a matter conditioned by our own vingnana.
Speaking about creation by any person is totally against buddhism.
The gatha " kammana vattathi loko kammana vattathi paja" ( vasetta sutta). explains that world and beings are processed by karma.
Hence we need not investigate about deities but let us study well vingnana and it's creations conditioned by karma .
With metta.