Second Jhana is the taste of first Nibbanic experience?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
pegembara
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Second Jhana is the taste of first Nibbanic experience?

Post by pegembara » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:34 am

SarathW wrote:So can there be six sense bases (Salayatana) without contact?
From the 1st person perspective or single unit of experience, no. After all you don't know you can see if you have no object to see.

Can there be hearing (which requires the organ of hearing) without sounds? Who or what hears without sounds? No listener without sounds.
From the evolution viewpoint, you would likely lose the ability to hear if the world is a silent place.

Likewise, no seeing(or seer) without light. No thinker without thoughts.
They are dependently co-arisen in terms of direct experience.

Light - Eye base - Seeing - seer
Sounds - Ear base - Hearing - hearer
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

pegembara
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Second Jhana is the taste of first Nibbanic experience?

Post by pegembara » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:40 am

R1111 wrote:Just a correction here.
The red part isnt about Nibbana might want to edit
pegembara wrote: What is nibbana?
I have heard that on one occasion Ven. Sariputta was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Feeding Sanctuary. There he said to the monks, "This Unbinding is pleasant, friends. This Unbinding is pleasant."

When this was said, Ven. Udayin said to Ven. Sariputta, "But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?"

"Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt.
"Furthermore, there is the case where a monk, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' If, as he remains there, he is beset with attention to perceptions dealing with rapture, that is an affliction for him...

"Furthermore, there is the case where a monk, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. And, having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations are completely ended. So by this line of reasoning it may be known how Unbinding is pleasant."

From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
It is the
"Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt."
,
the highest state of mind, unmade. Thats why i initially asked what OP meant by Nibbanic because Samatha 1-8 jhanas are of aggregates therefore cathegorically diffrent from cessation of Aggregates.
As far as Nibbanic/Jhanic Bliss in terms of one being a jhanic state, i think the first Samatha Rupa Jhana will be a real taste of bliss out of turning away from sensuality but i would know for sure because i havent tried it.
Thanks.

:anjali:
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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