ignorance avijja origin

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mansurhirbi87
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ignorance avijja origin

Post by mansurhirbi87 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:12 am

Brothers and sisters,

If there is no "i", ego, or Creator, what is the origin of our ignorance ? Who created it or who is ignorant ?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:39 am

AN 10.61 is a go-to sutta for this, it can be interpreted as claiming ignorance as causeless, or it can be interpreted as leaving the question set aside, I think. I am not an expert on this sutta. But that is one direction that might be conducive to answering your question.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Sam Vara
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:48 am

mansurhirbi87 wrote:Brothers and sisters,

If there is no "i", ego, or Creator, what is the origin of our ignorance ? Who created it or who is ignorant ?
I think of ignorance as meaning our being unaware, nescient, lacking heedfulness, or not paying correct attention to what is going on. As such, it is an ongoing condition that affects our mind, rather than a thing that had to originate with a particular being or action. A better question is "What is the continuation of our ignorance?"
A beginning point for ignorance — [such that one might say], "Before this, ignorance did not exist; then it came into play" — cannot be discerned.' This has been said. Nevertheless, it can be discerned, 'Ignorance comes from this condition.' And I tell you, ignorance has its nutriment. It is not without nutriment. And what is the nutriment for ignorance? The five hindrances
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... part3.html

SarathW
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by SarathW » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:33 am

Sankhara is the origin of ignorance.
They both inter related.
Buddha never discuss about the origin of the world as it not relevant to the goal.
You do not have to know the origin of ignorance to eliminate it.
You do not have to know who start the fire or the origin of it to extinguish it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

practitioner
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by practitioner » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:16 am

Origin cannot be known. That is why Buddha said the origin of universe cannot be known.

form
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by form » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:27 am

He mentioned that in AN. I need to check as I Dun remember exactly what he said.

But I think knowing the theory do not solve the problem.

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Mkoll
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by Mkoll » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:07 am

From AN 10.61:
“A first beginning of ignorance cannot be conceived, (of which it can be said), 'Before that, there was no ignorance and it came to be after that.' Though this is so, monks, yet a specific condition of ignorance can be conceived. Ignorance, too, has its nutriment, I declare; and it is not without a nutriment. And what is the nutriment of ignorance? 'The five hindrances,' should be the answer.”
There is no need to posit an enduring self or creator to account for our experience.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

rajitha7
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Re: ignorance avijja origin

Post by rajitha7 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:26 am

The quest to discover origin is considered "unskillful" possibly because it always leads to the chicken and egg problem.

Let us assume we found the reason for ignorance. Then next logical question becomes - how does the dependent condition arise! That quest will never be satisfied thus unfruitful.

It seems to rise out of nothing (Anatta) for no rhyme or reason. If you look at the meaning of life that corresponds quite neatly. Ultimately everything rises and ceases out of absolute nothing for no reason or logic.

A candle was set alight. The light passes on from one candle to the next and burns. The condition for creation for the light after Avijja is in our control. We can extinguish the light from that point onwards.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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