masturbation what's wrong?

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Dhammanando
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:55 am

Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:01 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Bundokji
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Bundokji » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:01 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
Thanks Bhante :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Aloka
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Aloka » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Thank you. In this long and sometimes very silly thread, this is the most concise, reasonable, and Dhamma appropriate statement to date.
I totally agree.


:anjali:

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DC2R
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by DC2R » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:18 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
End thread. :thumbsup:
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:55 pm

DC2R wrote:End thread. :thumbsup:
That's a "relief". :tongue:
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Saoshun
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Saoshun » Sun May 22, 2016 7:53 am

Masturbation is lesser "evil" because it will let the poison out and shut down biological compulsion rather then seeking gratification by making yourself "different" and "unwholesome" towards women. Guys do dumb stuff when feel stirred up, going to chats, talking and provoking girls and then blame themselves for their behavior, that thing between legs can really make you problems you going to regret.

so if you feel you losing control just let poison out so you can be more sane. And just try to develop wisdom of seeing the body the way it is, to see this body as pus, bones, muscles, worms inside, small crawling things eating your skin, bacterias. It's only hormones who paint this bag of meat as desirable, if you have clear vision no human is desirable, generally we are all ugly no matter how much followers you have on instagram, if you look at your body sincerity and investigate it properly then desire naturally will fall off, but be aware if you start doing this investigation you will find libido sky rocketing like not ever before. sometimes I think nature knows what you are doing and will try to put down your cultivation and let you think "okay, let's go with normal life..." but do not give up.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by TonyConrad » Mon May 23, 2016 3:49 am

I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
They .. will not listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata ..are being recited. They will not lend ear, will not set their hearts on knowing them, will not regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. ..Thus from corrupt Dhamma comes corrupt discipline; from corrupt discipline, corrupt Dhamma.

This, monks, is the fourth future danger .. work to get rid of it.

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Saoshun
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Saoshun » Mon May 23, 2016 5:16 am

TonyConrad wrote:I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
Yes, there is no scheme for this because it's compulsive. It will drag some people down deeper but for some people it can be remedy for making stupid things related to sexual nature, relations etc.
Remember… the Buddha had said that everyone living in this world is crazy, by the phrase, “Sabbē prutajjana ummattakā”; excluding the Arahants, everyone else is crazy. Would you get angry if a mad person scolds? Do we get angry for a crazy thing done by a crazy person? Just think about it! :candle:

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tiltbillings
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by tiltbillings » Mon May 23, 2016 5:40 am

TonyConrad wrote:I think this should be counted as an intoxicant.
To me it is intoxicating, has led to porn, which led to ....

Destruction

It is the cause of suffering in the four noble truths.
Don't blame masturbation. You, and you alone, are the one who makes the choice to act this way or that.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Ben
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Ben » Mon May 23, 2016 6:53 am

DC2R wrote:
Dhammanando wrote:
Bundokji wrote:What if a practitioner was raised in a society that praises masturbation and considers it a "virtue", how would that affect his/her sila, concentration and awareness?
That masturbation, if not done excessively, is a harmless and blameless enjoyment does in fact appear to be the prevalent view among educated people throughout the developed world, excepting only those with a religious commitment (Roman Catholic, for example) which instructs them otherwise.

I don't think this has any particular effect on these people's practice of the threefold training. If they decide to ordain or to become brahmacāri householders, then they simply take on the monkish perspective on masturbation and stop doing it. (Whether this will be a hard or an easy thing to do doesn't seem to be much affected by what beliefs about masturbation one was raised with). If they remain kāmabhogi householders then the practice (for those who do it) simply persists as one of the various non-transgressive sensual pleasures that they may enjoy from time to time.
End thread. :thumbsup:
I have to agree. Given Ajahn Dhamnanando's excellent and authoritative response, there really isn't any further need to continue this thread.
Anyone who feels more needs to be said - please refer to the 'great masturbation thread ' and be sure to read every post before requesting this thread be reopened or starting another thread on masturbation.
Ben
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Dhammarakkhito
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is masturbation the toughest defilement

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:54 am

seriously how do you give it up, i've even tacitly accepted celibacy with other people but when these thoughts/feelings arise i want them gone so i do a bit of a wank. i'm just trying to imagine maybe it is harder for me for whatever reason.
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by auto » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:31 pm

a) You can't give it up randomly,
you need know sensations beginning and end and the emptiness that not doing and the after you have done it has same ground. Also you need recognize the sensation what leads you to "m" and notice it and also notice the object and cultivate that till you can come back to your senses.

b) Note is that the "o" brings you back to your senses but you will experience calamities.
When you can do it using eye consciousness then you are free from certain calamities. After O you start relearn how to move and function again, but because of young age you recover fast but older you get you forget bits here and there you won't recover fully anymore, and can even forget entire functions of a body.

c) When you stop you will become angry,
if to predict people when they get heart failures and insults they come angry and irritable beforehand and when they fulfill anger towards some object like other person it will rebound and hit their system one step closer to grave.
---
Older you get the desire subsides but it means you are out of fuel and don't remember. If you "m", there may be a sensation of fear of getting caught so that sensation you can think of any non-sensible punishment you receive like getting caught by police in some other situation and also why you get caught because you are doing something indecent.

get better person and don't instigate people to misdeeds or seemingly good deeds what are good because you think or feel so without having evidence.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:52 am

masturbation is unchastity, right?
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: masturbation what's wrong?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:58 am

Greetings,
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:52 am
masturbation is unchastity, right?
It's a violation of the sexual misconduct wording in the 8+ precept formulations.

Not a violation of the sexual misconduct wording in the 5 precept formulation.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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