WOW! SO MUCH!

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
Rob427W
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:32 pm

WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Rob427W »

Hi, folks,


As I'm quite new to the tradition, I'm wondering how I might even begin to undertake the tremendous task of beginning to study the Suttas.

Here I am, about to begin listening to the Satipatthana teachings from Joseph Goldstein. Should I grab pen and paper, or just listen intently?


Any advice on how to begin study would be *wonderful*!


Thanks! :group:

---Rob
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by mikenz66 »

I suggest starting with Bhikkhu Bodi's book "In the Buddha's Words" which is cheap, well organised, and well-written.

See http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a link to Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks based on the book.

Book and reviews: http://wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=104" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(You can read the first chapter as a PDF).

Metta
Mike

Image[/quote]
User avatar
sherubtse
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by sherubtse »

A simpler intro would be Ven. Nyanatiloka's "The Word of the Buddha":

http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/wordofbuddha.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta,
Sherubtse
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Rob,

I recently posted this short list of texts which comprise of, or are based around, the Buddha's sutta-based teachings...

In The Buddha's Words - Bhikkhu Bodhi
Wings To Awakening - Venerable Thanissaro
What The Buddha Taught - Walpola Rahula
The Buddha's Ancient Path - Thera Piyadassi

I have read the last three and found them to be good. I haven't read the first, but I've read Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations and modern commentaries and see no reason why that wouldn't be at least as good as the others.

I never felt the need for pen and paper, but you may feel otherwise... I suspect that's a very individualised 'learning style' kind of issue.

See also:

Befriending the Suttas: Tips on Reading the Pali Discourses
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... nding.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and...
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

— SN 20.7
:reading:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by mikenz66 »

sherubtse wrote:A simpler intro would be Ven. Nyanatiloka's "The Word of the Buddha":
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/wordofbuddha.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, that's a very good option. And free too... I enjoyed that, but I felt focussed on particular issues. As does Thanissaro Bhikkhu's book that Retro mentions (which is also available free online), which is very much a presentation of his viewpoint. Not that that is bad, but it's not written as a general introduction to the Suttas.

For me, Bhikkhu Bodhi's collection has much broader coverage and diversity than anything else I've seen. Suttas about "mundane" topics such as how to live a good life, how to respect parents, how to look after spouses on up to Suttas about kamma, meditation, and liberation. Also, it has a lot of complete or near-complete Suttas, rather than the extracts that the other works resort to.

Edit:
Personally, my Sutta study path went:
1. In the Buddha's Words
2. BB's translation of the Majjhima Nikaya, with the aid of BB's talks http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/about- ... ikaya.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3. Other stuff...

Metta
Mike
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Ben »

Also keep in mind that there is a library of mp3 audio files of Bhikkhu Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya lecture series at the Bodhi Monastery site:
http://www.bodhimonastery.net/courses/MN/MN_course.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its worthwhile acquiring a copy of the Bodhi/Narada translation of the Majjhima Nikaya published by Wisdom for this, but if you get 'In the Buddha's Words' as Mike suggests, you'll find that many of the suttas are also in that work.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Rob427W
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Rob427W »

I find it weird, sounding like Dorothy when I say this, but, thank you all so VERY very much.


I really appreciate the advice, and am excited to start studying shortly! :thanks:


Lots of love!

Rob
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi
retros sugestions are all equally good!

here are some links
Access to insight, excellen resourse for suttas
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sutta readings, wher suttas are read aloud links from Access to insight also
http://www.suttareadings.net/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wikipiaka, loads of suttas some of which are not on A2I
http://tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS you can also get the wings to awakening n Access too insight
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by pink_trike »

Many good suggestions, but its good to remember that quantity is no substitute for slow and careful ingestion/digestion of information.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by mikenz66 »

pink_trike wrote:Many good suggestions, but its good to remember that quantity is no substitute for slow and careful ingestion/digestion of information.
This is a very good point. I agree that it is better to study some key Suttas carefully than try to read them all. I read "In the Buddha's words" several times over several months when I first got it, getting more out of it each time. Having done that, when I look at almost any other Sutta I can see where it fits in to the sequence Bhikkhu Bodhi used and how it elaborates on something that is in that collection.

I just got it back from someone I loaned it to. Probably time to read it again...

Mike
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by christopher::: »

pink_trike wrote:Many good suggestions, but its good to remember that quantity is no substitute for slow and careful ingestion/digestion of information.
Which is linked to direct and careful observation of one's own body/feelings/experiences/mind over an extended period of time. In other words, study needs to be balanced with practice.

Maybe that doesn't need to be said?

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Ben »

christopher::: wrote:Maybe that doesn't need to be said?
Oh no, dear Christopher!
It needs to be said over, and over, and over again.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Sanghamitta »

One use of pen and paper that i would recommend for those to whom it suits, is the ancient and traditional practice of Sutta copying. You take good clean paper and a good pen, you sit in a way that you find comfortable, but that aids awareness and you copy the Suttas line by line. You do this as mindfully as you can , it makes sense to have a set time for each session. It has two obvious effects . The mind becomes calm and clear, and the Suttas go in almost subliminally and sink through the various " layers" of the mind. Most people find that they have learned sections of the Suttas without consciously trying to. As well as creating a relaxed but aware state which maximises the chance of insights arising.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
User avatar
zavk
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by zavk »

christopher::: wrote:
pink_trike wrote:Many good suggestions, but its good to remember that quantity is no substitute for slow and careful ingestion/digestion of information.
Which is linked to direct and careful observation of one's own body/feelings/experiences/mind over an extended period of time. In other words, study needs to be balanced with practice.

Maybe that doesn't need to be said?

:anjali:
I'm not very well-read when it comes to the sutta. I have probably read the few key ones that delineate the basic aspects of the practice. But even then, I can't even remember the titles of those suttas! It is not that I'm avoiding the suttas or that I'm dismissing the value of reading suttas closely and repeatedly. But as far as my practice is concerned, I find that those few basic aspects of the teachings--i.e. craving, impermanence, equanimity--are more than enough for me to deal with!

As far as the direct and careful observation of my own experience goes, those few aspects have been enough to sustain my practice. However, I must say that I am slowly beginning to feel the need to study more suttas. But even if I were to study more suttas, I suspect that when I transpose that knowledge onto the cushion and/or the sphere of everyday life, it will only come back to reinforce those basic concepts that I thought I 'already understood'.
With metta,
zavk
Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: WOW! SO MUCH!

Post by Sanghamitta »

Its a bit like vitamin C Zavk. You can take a vitamin c capsule, or you can eat fresh fruit and veg which gives you not only vitamins but a range of micronutrients and roughage too...The Suttas are more than the basic nutrition. More than the key concepts.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Post Reply