Seeing Impermanence

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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pink_trike
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by pink_trike » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:17 pm

Observe the passing of the seasons throughout the course of the year...in Spring everything moves, in Summer there is blossoming, in Fall there is decline, in Winter there is dormancy. Observe that day always naturally and with ease becomes night. Observe that every breathe you take is naturally given back.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

sundara
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by sundara » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:22 pm

´Don't we need to use conditionality before seeing impermanence. In the books they say that we need to use conditionality before seeing impermanence. I don't know.

kidd
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by kidd » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:48 pm

Start by looking on the bright side; the pains, the sorrows, the angers and the fears that interfere with your happiness in the present are all temporary.

:juggling:

rowyourboat
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by rowyourboat » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:23 pm

Hello Sundara
If you are prepared to put some effort into this rather than have the odd impermanence experience, you should go all the way, develop a unified calm mind, start vipassana by seeing mentality-materiality (nama, rupa) and then see causality. Then see the three characteristics (anicca, dukkha, anatta). This is not easy but it is often difficult to communicate the importance of this process. You need to have faith in the Buddha, dhamma and sangha- that this is the path to cessation of suffering, and that there is unsatisfactoriness. Your ethics/sila needs to be quite good. You need to have motivation to put in regular daily practice. You will need to have faith in someone who can guide you and ideally a group of meditators to belong to. Only then will the results described in the suttas come about. Are you prepared to go the whole hog? You can do the rest of the suggestions in this thread over the next few days. But what is mentioned above will take weeks,months if not years. As you can imagine there will be a difference in the outcome as well. Are you up for it?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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appicchato
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by appicchato » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:56 pm

:goodpost: :pig:

sundara
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by sundara » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:50 pm

What does investigation of the Dhamma mean in the 2nd enlightenment factor?

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mikenz66
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:48 am

sundara wrote:What does investigation of the Dhamma mean in the 2nd enlightenment factor?
Does this help?

Wings to Awakening Part II The Seven Sets
by Thanissaro Bhikkhu (Geoffrey DeGraff)
G. The Seven Factors for Awakening
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#part2-g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[2] Any time one examines, investigates, & scrutinizes internal qualities with discernment, that is analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening. And any time one examines, investigates, & scrutinizes external qualities with discernment, that too is analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening. Thus this forms the definition of 'analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening,' and it is in this manner that it is two.
Mike

sundara
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by sundara » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:01 am

Is contemplating impermanence really obligatory, or can I just contemplate suffering?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:18 am

sundara wrote:Is contemplating impermanence really obligatory, or can I just contemplate suffering?
Just pay attention to your breathing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

sundara
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by sundara » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:07 pm

What are the fruits of contemplating impermanence?

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appicchato
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by appicchato » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:15 pm

At the end of the pike...liberation...

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fivebells
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by fivebells » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:58 pm

But if you don't have all of that, keep going anyway. I had none of those things to start with, and the practice was still highly beneficial.

If contemplation of impermanence is causing you discombobulation, try something more concrete, like contemplation of the fact that you are inevitably going to die. If that's the kind of contemplation you mean when you're say you're having unwanted thoughts, not to worry. Those thoughts were actually always there, you just never noticed them before. The point of the practice is to develop the capacity to calmly abide whatever arises, including such thoughts, so the fact that they're coming up actually constitutes a good training opportunity. If you find you can't stay calm, start with contemplation of more remote deaths. Your own of old age, for instance, or the death of someone to whom you feel neutral.

sundara
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by sundara » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:12 am

I saw anicca, and dukkha and anatta, and my mind went to a realm outside this one all like the sky with white specks for a moment in my head but I was still experiencing the body. But the text by Ajahn Brahm, Reflections conducive to liberation, he talks about anicca, cessation, fading away and relinquishment. He says that by doing that the 5 aggregates disappear and what remains is Nirvana. What is the real Nibbana the first or the second. I'm reading the text by Bhante Vimalaramsi on Anapanasati meditation and he explains that to arrive at the true Nirvana we have to see Dependent Origination that's the true Supramundane Nirvana, what do you friends think.

PeterB
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by PeterB » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:36 am

There is a long compound word in Pali for the fear or resistance that arises with the first arising of the fact of impermenance. When it is no longer just an interesting concept but is experienced as fact in mind and body. It takes work to then integrate that experience. Input from an experienced teacher is invaluable. Due to all sorts of variables not everyone reacts in the same way of course. I cannot speak apart from theoretically about the entire seeing of Dependant Origination.

rowyourboat
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Re: Seeing Impermanence

Post by rowyourboat » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:09 pm

Dear Sundara
It is impossible to say from your post what you experienced. A teacher would have to ask you what you meant by anicca, dukkha, anatta, find out what practices you were doing and had experience in the past, and the gradual progress you had made, not to mention a detailed description of the state of mind you reached.

But generally (not regarding your experience) I can say that a glimpse of nibbana has no sensory perception in it. None at all. Also some people partially let go by seeing the three characteristics and their mind can feel disconnected from everything, but the mind has not vanished and some kind of formless perception persists. It is still a mundane type of letting go. It is a good sign and the person needs to keep on doing what she was doing, possibly at a greater depth/inensity.

Contemplating suffering is a trickier affair. I feel it can lead to depression unless done in a dispassionate way. This is the beauty of contemplating anicca because in a roundabout way it contains the contemplation of suffering but in a way which allows to let go of that same suffering.

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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