I really dont want to drag you off topic Christopher:::, and actually I dont think that I am..
I would suggest that it is in fact the other way round. We dont cultivate upekkha by avoiding topics or situations. We cultivate upekkha to see that aversion and attraction are equally to be detached from. The same false sense of self that we weaken or undermine by taking Refuge , is also the false sense of self that the cultivation of upekkha shows to have no lasting reality.
Valerie.
Refuge in Oneself
-
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: Refuge in Oneself
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Hi Valerie,
I agree here, Yes. I just see it as there are many ways to cultivate upekkha, as there are many benefits. It's without a doubt one of the foundations of a successful practice..!
I'd say that depends. For example, not getting into debates that raise anger or keep you from meditating at night (that's happened to me), not watching the news on tv too often, not doing shots of tequila with friends, etc...Sanghamitta wrote:
We dont cultivate upekkha by avoiding topics or situations.
We cultivate upekkha to see that aversion and attraction are equally to be detached from. The same false sense of self that we weaken or undermine by taking Refuge , is also the false sense of self that the cultivation of upekkha shows to have no lasting reality.
I agree here, Yes. I just see it as there are many ways to cultivate upekkha, as there are many benefits. It's without a doubt one of the foundations of a successful practice..!
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Hi Chris:::
No need to defend yourself, no attack is forthcoming...
Best wishes
No need to defend yourself, no attack is forthcoming...
Because it is the subject of this thread, Re: "Refuge in Oneself". I believe Drolma was expressing this as her view.Christopher wrote:There is no self to go to refuge to, so why say there is?
In my view the best approach to practice is to drop the 'I' and 'other' notions... No 'I' that sees, just seeing. No 'I' that hears, just hearing etc etc Then drop the notions of 'seeing', 'hearing' etc. All in conformity with anatta. Couldn't be easier...In several other threads we have been talking recently .... about some of the nitty gritty approaches of practice.
Best wishes
Just a view - nothing more...
-
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Can you say a little more about the "many ways" of cultivating upekkha ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- appicchato
- Posts: 1602
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
- Location: Bridge on the River Kwae
Re: Refuge in Oneself
kannada wrote:Then drop the notions...
Re: Refuge in Oneself
At last!!!... Someone who understands...appicchato wrote:kannada wrote:Then drop the notions...
Just a view - nothing more...
- christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Refuge in Oneself
But, but, but if we drop the notion of "I" how can there be "someone" who understands"?
Well, my wisdom there is limited, but that would be a wonderful topic to explore...
Please join us here...
Cultivating upekkha (equanimity) day-to-day
Sanghamitta wrote:
Can you say a little more about the "many ways" of cultivating upekkha ?
Well, my wisdom there is limited, but that would be a wonderful topic to explore...
Please join us here...
Cultivating upekkha (equanimity) day-to-day
Last edited by christopher::: on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Refuge in Oneself
There isn't Chris - it's just a figure of speech used in the land of delusion...Chris::: wrote:But, but, but if we drop the notion of "I" how can there be "someone" who understands"?
Just a view - nothing more...
- christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Yes, my friend, I know.kannada wrote:There isn't Chris - it's just a figure of speech used in the land of delusion...Chris::: wrote:But, but, but if we drop the notion of "I" how can there be "someone" who understands"?
Well, "I" don't know...
"You" know...
oh...
friggggggg it....
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
-
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: Refuge in Oneself
The link you posted Christopher leads to an interesting discussion on " dry" bare attention and Vipassana. which of course I alluded to with my reference to cultivating upekkha as a by product of mindfulness. Your reference to MANY ways piqued my attention..
The "someone who understands" is a provisional reality. It is no less provisional than the one who doesnt understand. But the former provisional reality leads to the cessation of the latter, whereas the latter provisional reality perpetuates itself.
The "someone who understands" is a provisional reality. It is no less provisional than the one who doesnt understand. But the former provisional reality leads to the cessation of the latter, whereas the latter provisional reality perpetuates itself.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27858
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Greetings Kannada,
From SN 56.11: Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Retro.
It's a figure of speech the Buddha used. When speaking conventionally though, the Buddha was not fooled by the conventional understanding.kannada wrote:There isn't Chris - it's just a figure of speech used in the land of delusion...Chris::: wrote:But, but, but if we drop the notion of "I" how can there be "someone" who understands"?
From SN 56.11: Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta,Then the Blessed One exclaimed: "So you really know, Kondañña? So you really know?" And that is how Ven. Kondañña acquired the name Añña-Kondañña — Kondañña who knows.
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
-
- Posts: 1614
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
- Location: By the River Thames near London.
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Which is also a nice example of the Buddhas bone-dry humour.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Hi all.
Anyway, I bumped this thread alive again. Please drop by...
Cultivating upekkha (equanimity) day-to-day
I think maybe it depends on how we look at this. I was speaking of the wide range of specific strategies one might employ situation-to-situation. How to deal with anger, restlessness, excitement, sexuality, children, job tasks, exercise, etc. How to use all of these as opportunities to cultivate upekkha... The underlying strategies of mindfulness are pretty straightforward (observe non-reactively, let go, etc), but how you do this in one situation will often differ from another. You don't think so?Sanghamitta wrote:The link you posted Christopher leads to an interesting discussion on " dry" bare attention and Vipassana. which of course I alluded to with my reference to cultivating upekkha as a by product of mindfulness. Your reference to MANY ways piqued my attention..
Anyway, I bumped this thread alive again. Please drop by...
Cultivating upekkha (equanimity) day-to-day
The "someone who understands" is a provisional reality. It is no less provisional than the one who doesnt understand. But the former provisional reality leads to the cessation of the latter, whereas the latter provisional reality perpetuates itself.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Refuge in Oneself
Hi Retro,
Best wishes
Thanks for the quote. Although I accept what you say it doesn't seem obvious in that passage (unless I completely missed it). There doesn't seem to be a notice of proviso that stipulates a convention of 'so-to-speak' as found in the Mahayana's Diamond Sutra (i.e. Dhammas are not dhammas but are called dhammas, 'x' is not 'x' but is called 'x' etc. Do you know of any instances in the Theravada teachings where this occurs...retrofuturist wrote:It's a figure of speech the Buddha used. When speaking conventionally though, the Buddha was not fooled by the conventional understanding
Best wishes
Just a view - nothing more...
- appicchato
- Posts: 1602
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
- Location: Bridge on the River Kwae
Re: Refuge in Oneself
There's only one Dhamma...everything else is a dhamma...kannada wrote:Dhammas are not dhammas but are called dhammas...