The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:10 am

Hmm, you really need to read the threads, because it is more nuanced than that, and the argument revolves around what control is possible over the conditions that lead to right effort, etc.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p218121

:anjali:
Mike

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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:53 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, you really need to read the threads,
:jawdrop:

:computerproblem:

:alien:

:hello:

~~~

:focus: whatever that is now...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by robertk » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:54 am

Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, you really need to read the threads,
:jawdrop:

:computerproblem:

:alien:

:hello:

~~~
.
I couldn't understand the meaning, could you explain?

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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:47 am

robertk wrote:I couldn't understand the meaning, could you explain?
It was a rather vague joke having to do with feigned and exaggerated indignation that only I probably got because I made it up. I'll explain anyway.

:jawdrop: :computerproblem: = surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"

:alien: = my butting out: "im outta here"

:hello: = my waving goodbye: "laterz"
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:23 am

Mkoll wrote:surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"
I don't see any need to be indignant. I think it's an interesting discussion that addresses the important question of to what extent we actually have control over conditions from various points of view. While I have some disagreements with the Sujin model that Robert favours, if you look at the links I gave above, especially my partial transcription of a talk by Ajahn Amaro, you'll see that other teachers do discuss problems with tackling bhavana with wrong view.

:anjali:
Mike

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:11 pm

Mkoll wrote: :jawdrop: :computerproblem: = surprised and indignant that mikenz66 would suggest that I read this gigantic thread: "omg no way"
Actually, just read the first 20 pages of this, which is not too much, and likely you will be jawdropping and omg-ing with actual indignation. After that just jump in anywhere and read a bit here and there and
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:11 pm

mikenz66 wrote:I don't see any need to be indignant.
Lol. It was a joke, or rather an attempt at one:
Mkoll wrote:feigned and exaggerated indignation
Remind me not to try that brand of humor again. :lol:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:15 pm

Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:I don't see any need to be indignant.
Lol. It was a joke, or rather an attempt at one:
Mkoll wrote:feigned and exaggerated indignation
Remind me not to try that brand of humor again. :lol:
Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:37 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
I just now skimmed the first 20 and I've seen enough.

I'll refrain from commenting.

:sage:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:19 pm

Mkoll wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
I just now skimmed the first 20 and I've seen enough.

I'll refrain from commenting.

:sage:
But you should comment.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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daverupa
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by daverupa » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:31 pm

I thought page 26 was useful.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Mkoll
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mkoll » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:18 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Certainly it was a joke, but seriously read the first 20 pages, if you have not already.
I just now skimmed the first 20 and I've seen enough.

I'll refrain from commenting.

:sage:
But you should comment.
I will say that now that I have a better idea of what a "Sujin-notions of mindfulness" is, as you mentioned at the beginning of the page, I know not to touch it with a yojana-long pole.

:lol:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:30 am

Mkoll wrote: I will say that now that I have a better idea of what a "Sujin-notions of mindfulness" is, as you mentioned at the beginning of the page, I know not to touch it with a yojana-long pole.
I certainly understand, but on the other hand such discussions can be of value in that it helps clarify one's own understanding, especially when faced with an unusual point of view. Again, without question I can understand not wanting to engage in such a discussion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by ancientbuddhism » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:50 pm

Matthew Kusota’s impressions of the Sujin cult may be of interest:

The Abhidhammic theory of Ajaan Sujin Boriharnwanaket
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves

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cooran
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by cooran » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:33 pm

Hello ancientbuddhism, all,

There is no Sujin cult.

I attended a few of the regular study groups many years ago in Thailand. Her teachings and discussions are based on the the accepted Teachings of the Buddha in the Tipitaka and align with explanations by buddhist scholars.
There was no pressure or problem when I didn't hold the exactly same opinions as other members of the meeting.

I also met our Ven. Dhammanando and Bhikkhu Bodhi on separate occasions via this group.

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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