Sotapanna issues

[Dhammakid]

rowyourboat,
Fantastic links. Thanks a bunch.


Dhammakid

[acinteyyo]

To become a noble one there is nothing more to attain but right view in the first place, and it isn't necessary to meditate concentration for hours or such things. I do not want to say that it is easy to gain right view, but it isn't as difficult as some might think.
How will "right view" be developed?
The Buddha said:

Right view
"Friend, how many conditions are there for the arising of right view?"
"Friend, there are two conditions for the arising of right view : the voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."

Another interesting quote from the Buddha at the end of the "Sarakaani Sutta" (SN55.24). It's about Sarakaani who was proclaimed by the Blessed One to be a Stream-Winner, but the people were indignant and angry, because Sarakaani drank alcohol. Then the Buddha said:

Why, Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment, how much more so then Sarakaani the Sakyan! Mahaanaama, Sarakaani the Sakyan fulfilled the training at the time of death.

the Buddha would proclaim trees to be Stream-Winner, if these trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken!!!
A lay follower, when s/he did not develop "right view" (sammaditthi) can not make progress on the path.
Q.: Why not?
A.: How should it be possible that one, with wrong or evil view (ditthi) could ever make any progress on the path?!
Thus, to enter the "stream of the path to enlightenment", one has to be able to distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, in other words one has to have "right view", then one could be proclaimed to be a stream-winner. And the sotapanna (stream-winner), who is the first of the noble one's (aryia puggala) knows what has to be done in order to "make progress on the path" - not the puthujjana, how could s/he?

best wishes, acinteyyo

[appicchato]

To become a noble one there is nothing more to attain but right view...

Reference?...

[acinteyyo]

To become a noble one there is nothing more to attain but right view...

Reference?...

Greetings bhante,

... in the first place! What I was trying to say is, that first there must be "right view". First there must be the right understanding of the 4 noble truths.
I don't hava another reference in the suttas. I specially meant the sotapanna, by saying "a noble one". it is my interpretation of the above mentioned sutta. As I said:

Thus, to enter the "stream of the path to enlightenment", one has to be able to distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, in other words one has to have "right view", then one could be proclaimed to be a stream-winner.

In the sutta "Sarakaani Sutta" (SN55.24) the Buddha said:

if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment

I didn't find a reference in the suttas until now, where it is said how one actually becomes a sotpanna. There are plenty of suttas, which describe abilities of one who allready attained sotapatti. I think, the abilities are the result of "right view". Because natural consequences of right understanding would be proper attitude, behavior and knowledge.
If there are any suttas disproving my interpretation, I would retract my statement naturally.

best wishes, acinteyyo

[cooran]

Hello acinteyyo, all,

Stream Entry is the hardest of attainments as, after this attainment all the rest are reached in not more than seven lifetimes.
We have wandered in Sa.msara during beginningless time and very few of us have attained to even mundane right view, let alone Supramundane Right View.

Right View: The Sammaditthi Sutta and its Commentary
Translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Nanamoli Edited and Revised by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.abhidhamma.org/r_view00.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lokuttara
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/g_m/lokuttara.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ariya-puggala
http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/a/ ... uggala.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris

[tiltbillings]

This is something Ven Dhammanandop posted someplace which he got from some e-list. It might be of interest here:

1) The sotapanna has abandoned the first three of the lower fetters: personality view, doubt, misapprehension of precepts and vows. (Ratanasutta Sn. 233)

2) He is freed from the possibility of rebirth in the four lower realms. (Ratanasutta Sn. 234)

3) He is incapable of concealing any bodily, verbal or mental transgression. (Ratanasutta Sn. 235)

4) He has abandoned any lust, hate or delusion that would be strong enough to cause rebirth in the lower realms. (Abhabba Sutta AN. iii. 438)

5) He is incapable of nine actions: treating any sa?khara as permanent, treating any sa?khara as pleasurable, treating any dhamma as self, killing his mother, father or an arahant, causing bleeding in a Tathagata with evil intent, splitting the Sa?gha, or going over to another teacher. (Bahudhatuka Sutta MN. 115)

6) He is incapable of living without reverence for the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, and the training. Nor can he embrace any of the 62 wrong views or take an eighth birth. (Pa?hama-abhabba??hana Sutta AN. iii. 438-9)

7) He is incapable of seeking outside the Sangha for persons worthy of gifts. (Dutiya-abhabba??hana Sutta AN. iii. 439)

8) He cannot fall into the six wrong views that pleasure and pain are self-wrought, or wrought by another, or wrought by both oneself and another, or arise by chance without any act by self, or arise by chance without any act by another, or arise by chance without any act by either self or another. "For the one attained to right view sees well both causes and dhammas that are causally arisen." (Catuttha-abhabba??hana Sutta AN. iii. 440)

9) He is fixed unshakeably in the True Dhamma, is incapable of backsliding (to being a worlding), his future dukkha is finite, he has attained to knowledge not common to worldlings, cause and causally arisen dhammas are seen rightly by him.
(Anisa?sa Sutta AN. iii. 441)

10) He possesses unshakable confidence in the Three Jewels and the unbroken virtue that is pleasing to ariyans (numerous Suttas)